Cyan problems I see everywhere with P800...need some help troubleshooting. Here are steps I've taken

[Mdrake2016]

It's crazy that after 2 years I still have these issues, and I take extreme care of these printers. 

I've had Cyan clogs on 3 separate P800s (half of nozzles missing on nozzle check). I searched and it seems to be a common problem with the P800 and cyan....so strange. The first 2 P800s, from the very beginning I could never get a solid blue using Cadlink (I use 1440x720 but even 1440x1440 gave me some banding on blues). The strange thing is 1 day suddenly on my second P800, it began printing a perfect solid blue. On my third P800...same thing. Banding on Cyan from the beginning. It stayed overall consistent until about a few weeks ago, then it got worse and worse 5-10 prints in before having to do a head clean. Then 1 day I was getting no Cyan at all. Here's what I've tried so far:

1. Daily - I keep it in 50% humidity. Run a headclean before every printing session. I do a headclean and manual cleaning, and also clean wiper blade and capping station every day when done printing.

2. When the cyan was completely lost, I thought it may have been the capping station. I took it apart and flushed it. Didn't work.

3. I removed the dampers, and did a flush and reverse flush with cleaner through the Cyan channel. When I put it back together, the cyan was 90% back but still banding and not a solid blue. A week later, back to running a head clean every 5-10 prints.

4. Changed the Cyan cartridge but didn't make any difference.

I was told the dampers would be the problem....I seriously doubt this because again, it's Cyan on all of these printers and they were a problem from the very beginning. And flushing cleaner through the Cyan channel seemed to bring most of it back. So there seems to be just a reoccuring clog.

Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? 

[johnson4]

2 hours ago, Mdrake2016 said:

It's crazy that after 2 years I still have these issues, and I take extreme care of these printers. 

I've had Cyan clogs on 3 separate P800s (half of nozzles missing on nozzle check). I searched and it seems to be a common problem with the P800 and cyan....so strange. The first 2 P800s, from the very beginning I could never get a solid blue using Cadlink (I use 1440x720 but even 1440x1440 gave me some banding on blues). The strange thing is 1 day suddenly on my second P800, it began printing a perfect solid blue. On my third P800...same thing. Banding on Cyan from the beginning. It stayed overall consistent until about a few weeks ago, then it got worse and worse 5-10 prints in before having to do a head clean. Then 1 day I was getting no Cyan at all. Here's what I've tried so far:

1. Daily - I keep it in 50% humidity. Run a headclean before every printing session. I do a headclean and manual cleaning, and also clean wiper blade and capping station every day when done printing.

2. When the cyan was completely lost, I thought it may have been the capping station. I took it apart and flushed it. Didn't work.

3. I removed the dampers, and did a flush and reverse flush with cleaner through the Cyan channel. When I put it back together, the cyan was 90% back but still banding and not a solid blue. A week later, back to running a head clean every 5-10 prints.

4. Changed the Cyan cartridge but didn't make any difference.

I was told the dampers would be the problem....I seriously doubt this because again, it's Cyan on all of these printers and they were a problem from the very beginning. And flushing cleaner through the Cyan channel seemed to bring most of it back. So there seems to be just a reoccuring clog.

Can anyone help me troubleshoot this? 

Odd, almost same boat- except magenta and cyan when I used the P800’s. It usually wasn’t immediately though. 
 

The last one I modified the pressure pump so it would build up a bit higher pressure and it solved my flow issues. I didn’t use it long after that though, I switch models for faster speed. I personally assumed it was the viscosity of the ink back. I ran new bottles of ink through a new damper as a filter and only one bottle did leave settlement on the filter. 
 

however, on those models I switched to- I Leaned the CMYK ink gives me Shi* when it’s 5-6 months old almost exactly. Likely what happened to the p800’s. I throw away any close to that and keep fresh ink and I’m good to go, haven’t had an issue since. 
 

the DTG inks I used in my p800 DTG never had any issues at all. It sat for months without issue at times except needing to flush the settled white ink. 
 

something to consider, the dampers not only have the filter but they also have a small needle valve in them that the ink passes through. Working them manually with your own pressure doesn’t mean inside the printer running at its standard pressure will let it function properly. You could test this, but would need to test the PSI of the printer and replicate it outside of the printer or compare it to a new damper. 

 

hope you figure it out. 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by johnson4

[johnson4]

Personally I believe these inks are thicker In viscosity than stock and if the head has to “ suck” harder at all- it wears it out faster. I believe they are designed to be in a neutral state, with the damper pressurized behind the printhead reservoir. When the printhead uses the ink in the damper it slowly opens the valve where new ink is forced in quickly closing the valve. Making it require very little suction or work on the printhead. 
 

any deviation from that and the printhead has to create a larger “ suction” to activate the damper and it soon dies from the extra work. This would also make it more prone to clogging during this time. 

A higher viscosity ink will cause this. In my mind I imagine if you do a head clean it “pre loads” this pressure and damper. Sort of removing the extra work on the printhead until that equalizes again. After a few prints the thicker ink is hard for the printhead to overcome and results in lost nozzles again. Cycle over and over until the head gives out on that channel.  
 

I tested this a bit with an R2400 and P400 since they are gravity fed. I assumed by design they would be a bit more “resilient” due to their design. The two that also had this issue. I flushed them and reloaded the ink, same. Flushed them added DYE ink, printed perfect. Put back in DTF, poor results. Went back to dye, perfect. I did the same with a couple of the failed P800s and while some nozzles were permanently gone, all the channels came back quickly. 
 

that’s my speculation of it. I know it sounds stupid, but I also feel like the older the cmyk ink gets, even in sealed containers, the thicker it gets. I should get a viscosity meter and test the theory. 
 

to kind of go along with this theory- ALL aftermarket dampers I have used in ANY of my Epson’s, never work like the original if at all.  Dropped channels, dropped nozzles, intermittent drop outs, all kinds of stuff. constant nozzle checks and cleans. I mean never- has it worked well. I have tons of knock off dampers that give me this type of issue, throw in an OEM damper and I’m good for 4-6 months after priming it. 
 

so I’ve been using only ( expensive) OEM dampers, but, beats the alternative. 

overall I genuinely believe it’s a finely tuned system, these inks push that to the limit and sometimes beyond that limit depending on the supplies used. 
 

I am happy to say I haven’t had any issues like this since doing the aforementioned. As long as I flush, clean, and change my dampers regularly and keep an eye on my ink expiration I get to enjoy the one head clean a day life. 

I am kind of testing this theory a bit on my models I use now. I printed an ink line adapter to use the OEM damper assy and bypass the white ink cartridge bays. I used a medical grade submersible pump to mix the ink in the tank without introducing air and pressurized the ink container to 2Psi with about another 2 Psi due to the height over the printhead. 
 

overall it’s been working fantastic, cost me about $100 to build and I’m still testing it. In theory if you added the CMYK they would share the pressure pump and not need the mixing pumps, so it would be much cheaper to add those. I don’t because I don’t need to refill CMYK that much and don’t want a giant row of ink tanks unnecessarily. 
 

this kind of also tests that theory, because if I remove the pressure pump and make the ink level even( not lower than, just an equal pressure)- making the head do all the work- it drops nozzles almost immediately- head clean- few good prints- another head clean. it’s why I went the route I did and pressurized the tanks. 
 

 

may not be helpful at all, but food for thought. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by johnson4

[Mdrake2016]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:05 PM, johnson4 said:

Personally I believe these inks are thicker In viscosity than stock and if the head has to “ suck” harder at all- it wears it out faster. I believe they are designed to be in a neutral state, with the damper pressurized behind the printhead reservoir. When the printhead uses the ink in the damper it slowly opens the valve where new ink is forced in quickly closing the valve. Making it require very little suction or work on the printhead. 
 

any deviation from that and the printhead has to create a larger “ suction” to activate the damper and it soon dies from the extra work. This would also make it more prone to clogging during this time. 

A higher viscosity ink will cause this. In my mind I imagine if you do a head clean it “pre loads” this pressure and damper. Sort of removing the extra work on the printhead until that equalizes again. After a few prints the thicker ink is hard for the printhead to overcome and results in lost nozzles again. Cycle over and over until the head gives out on that channel.  
 

I tested this a bit with an R2400 and P400 since they are gravity fed. I assumed by design they would be a bit more “resilient” due to their design. The two that also had this issue. I flushed them and reloaded the ink, same. Flushed them added DYE ink, printed perfect. Put back in DTF, poor results. Went back to dye, perfect. I did the same with a couple of the failed P800s and while some nozzles were permanently gone, all the channels came back quickly. 
 

that’s my speculation of it. I know it sounds stupid, but I also feel like the older the cmyk ink gets, even in sealed containers, the thicker it gets. I should get a viscosity meter and test the theory. 
 

to kind of go along with this theory- ALL aftermarket dampers I have used in ANY of my Epson’s, never work like the original if at all.  Dropped channels, dropped nozzles, intermittent drop outs, all kinds of stuff. constant nozzle checks and cleans. I mean never- has it worked well. I have tons of knock off dampers that give me this type of issue, throw in an OEM damper and I’m good for 4-6 months after priming it. 
 

so I’ve been using only ( expensive) OEM dampers, but, beats the alternative. 

overall I genuinely believe it’s a finely tuned system, these inks push that to the limit and sometimes beyond that limit depending on the supplies used. 
 

I am happy to say I haven’t had any issues like this since doing the aforementioned. As long as I flush, clean, and change my dampers regularly and keep an eye on my ink expiration I get to enjoy the one head clean a day life. 

I am kind of testing this theory a bit on my models I use now. I printed an ink line adapter to use the OEM damper assy and bypass the white ink cartridge bays. I used a medical grade submersible pump to mix the ink in the tank without introducing air and pressurized the ink container to 2Psi with about another 2 Psi due to the height over the printhead. 
 

overall it’s been working fantastic, cost me about $100 to build and I’m still testing it. In theory if you added the CMYK they would share the pressure pump and not need the mixing pumps, so it would be much cheaper to add those. I don’t because I don’t need to refill CMYK that much and don’t want a giant row of ink tanks unnecessarily. 
 

this kind of also tests that theory, because if I remove the pressure pump and make the ink level even( not lower than, just an equal pressure)- making the head do all the work- it drops nozzles almost immediately- head clean- few good prints- another head clean. it’s why I went the route I did and pressurized the tanks. 
 

 

may not be helpful at all, but food for thought. 

Before attempting to deciper your replies lol, I tried to do something someone suggested on one of the Facebook forums as a temporary solution since I've had an urgent order. They suggested swapping 1 white channel with the Cyan (I use Cadlink and that is easily done). 

Prior to swapping them, I ran a nozzle check and the LK (White) channel was perfect while the Cyan had half of the nozzles missing. After swapping them, the blues on my prints look much better (although let's just say 95% perfect). Now the strange thing is my new White channel (where Cyan was before) is starting to clear up, and the new Cyan channel (where white was before) is starting to show missing nozzle.

To me, this has to mean something is wrong with the Cyan ink. I would never think White ink would start to clear up clogs. If anything, I expected it to get worse. 

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Mdrake2016 said:

Before attempting to deciper your replies lol, I tried to do something someone suggested on one of the Facebook forums as a temporary solution since I've had an urgent order. They suggested swapping 1 white channel with the Cyan (I use Cadlink and that is easily done). 

Prior to swapping them, I ran a nozzle check and the LK (White) channel was perfect while the Cyan had half of the nozzles missing. After swapping them, the blues on my prints look much better (although let's just say 95% perfect). Now the strange thing is my new White channel (where Cyan was before) is starting to clear up, and the new Cyan channel (where white was before) is starting to show missing nozzle.

To me, this has to mean something is wrong with the Cyan ink. I would never think White ink would start to clear up clogs. If anything, I expected it to get worse. 

That happens absolutely. I’ve had white ink clear CMYK clogs before. 
 

basically that is what my replies said- ink and the potential damaging effect it can have on an otherwise healthy printhead.Haha. I went way in Depth with my experiences and reasoning why and the types of decisions I’ve made based on these findings

Edited February 3, 2023 by johnson4

[johnson4]

If your inks have been open longer than 2 months, or if they are older than 6 months old, I would toss them and try new inks. Or don't toss them, and just try new inks with a proper flush on that channel. 

 

In short- my CMYK inks for DTF superstore give me crap after they are 6 months old. Period. Other places, They always give me crap. So I'll take the 6 months of "no crap", haha. 

 

Good luck!

[Mdrake2016]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:02 PM, johnson4 said:

If your inks have been open longer than 2 months, or if they are older than 6 months old, I would toss them and try new inks. Or don't toss them, and just try new inks with a proper flush on that channel. 

 

In short- my CMYK inks for DTF superstore give me crap after they are 6 months old. Period. Other places, They always give me crap. So I'll take the 6 months of "no crap", haha. 

 

Good luck!

Shortly after my last reply, I had a huge paper jam that destroyed the printhead. I have no idea how it happened....I stepped away and came back a minute later to a nightmare. I think I'm done with this printer (3rd one and over @3500 wasted). I got an XP-15000 again that for some strange reason is printing much faster and much better quality than the P800. I got some minor issues to work out with it but if I can get it worked out, I'm already much happier with it.

[johnson4]

14 minutes ago, Mdrake2016 said:

Shortly after my last reply, I had a huge paper jam that destroyed the printhead. I have no idea how it happened....I stepped away and came back a minute later to a nightmare. I think I'm done with this printer (3rd one and over @3500 wasted). I got an XP-15000 again that for some strange reason is printing much faster and much better quality than the P800. I got some minor issues to work out with it but if I can get it worked out, I'm already much happier with it.

Interesting, likely a driver related occurrence. it isn’t physically possible for the xp-15000 to print faster than the P800, both have the same nozzle count with a very similar head pass speed. if you used Cadlink, then the P800 was slow on that RIP for me. 
 

The P800 is notorious for head strikes, gotta keep the tension going in the shaker and a flat surface with it. It’s how most of mine died. 
 

glad you got something going though,  the 15000 should be about 11-12 12”x12” an hour full color. Not bad at all for $400. Even replaced every 6 months, it’s practically impossible not to come out on top with it.