Andy's ink ICC Profile?

[AMartinez]

Does anyone have an icc profile for Andy's ink.

fwiw I'm on an xp 15000 and acrorip 10.5, I'm not sure what info is relevant

Even a personally made one would be helpful.  Also maybe a tutorial on how to create one, I have NO idea how to even attempt that.  Thanks in advance 👍

[johnson4]

11 hours ago, AMartinez said:

Does anyone have an icc profile for Andy's ink.

fwiw I'm on an xp 15000 and acrorip 10.5, I'm not sure what info is relevant

Even a personally made one would be helpful.  Also maybe a tutorial on how to create one, I have NO idea how to even attempt that.  Thanks in advance 👍

ICC profiles are printer/setup specific. 
 

you would need to buy the tools needed to create your own with your film, ink, and printer. It would need done for every different setup. 
 

in general if your colors are off, It’s not the ICC. ICC will only “ fine tune” shades and colors. If blue is coming out purple, or dark blue, you need to adjust your ink percentages. 
 

been there done that. Spent over $2,000 and I still ended up running without a profile. While it’s a bit less color accurate, it makes colors more bold/vivid/solid unless it’s a photograph.  

The easiest example I can give is red. It always comes one a tinge orange with a profile. Without, it comes out an accurate red.
 

That’s with 2 low end spectrophotometers and one high end giving the same result across Cadlink, acro, and EKprint with over 200 hours of testing. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by johnson4

[anum11]

I have my own profile on Cadlink with my own film and ink. I get solid accurate colors and red. I adjusted for p400 and p600, soon for l8180 r3000 and p800 too. Also have an audley 24” with cadlink and profile. But have to say chinese printers are less quality nomatter how you fine tune.

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, anum11 said:

I have my own profile on Cadlink with my own film and ink. I get solid accurate colors and red. I adjusted for p400 and p600, soon for l8180 r3000 and p800 too. Also have an audley 24” with cadlink and profile. But have to say chinese printers are less quality nomatter how you fine tune.

Pretty cool, glad you were able to achieve such a high color accuracy. 
 

I used self made graphics with set color values before and after printing for my comparison based on their color readings most of the time to check accuracy. Spot checking I guess. 

 

Anytime I profiled, while slightly more accurate( hardly noticeable if at all different), visually they were disappointing.

Acro did do a much better job than the others. 
 

the overall transfers coming out didn’t match what customers expected or have the rich colors I wanted. It’s one of the most heard feedback I get is how vivid the prints are. 
 

I spent a lot of time fiddling with and ultimately with sending customers both, not one preferred the profiled prints- except ones with real life photos. So I just use the profiles for those. 

Back to the conversation, I think most people are expecting RGB colors and vibrancy out of a CMYK device when they ask for profiles.  I’ve talked to so many printers and suppliers who get a ton of complaints on that. 

 

Hats off to you for figuring it out though, it’s not easy, free, or cheap. Definitely doesn’t come from a profile you find on the internet and/or cross compatible with different machines. 
 

 

[AMartinez]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:24 AM, johnson4 said:

ICC profiles are printer/setup specific. 
 

you would need to buy the tools needed to create your own with your film, ink, and printer. It would need done for every different setup. 
 

in general if your colors are off, It’s not the ICC. ICC will only “ fine tune” shades and colors. If blue is coming out purple, or dark blue, you need to adjust your ink percentages. 
 

been there done that. Spent over $2,000 and I still ended up running without a profile. While it’s a bit less color accurate, it makes colors more bold/vivid/solid unless it’s a photograph.  

The easiest example I can give is red. It always comes one a tinge orange with a profile. Without, it comes out an accurate red.
 

That’s with 2 low end spectrophotometers and one high end giving the same result across Cadlink, acro, and EKprint with over 200 hours of testing. 

Have any recent updates fixed the greens on EKprint?  This post was referring to acrorip colors being ever so slightly off, but definitely liveable, but honestly after tons of testing yesterday, I still prefer the finished quality of EKprint over acrorip 10.5, but I can't get over how bad the greens are on EKprint.

[johnson4]

6 hours ago, AMartinez said:

Have any recent updates fixed the greens on EKprint?  This post was referring to acrorip colors being ever so slightly off, but definitely liveable, but honestly after tons of testing yesterday, I still prefer the finished quality of EKprint over acrorip 10.5, but I can't get over how bad the greens are on EKprint.

I don’t believe there have been any updates to EK. 
 

my reference to running without a profile yielding more solid/bold colors have been with Cadlink. I’ve been out of the acro/ek scene for a few months now. 
 

My main point was it isn’t worth wasting your time profiling, even with spending a ton of money and time you likely won’t get the results you are after. I know I didn’t. 
 

I think I know what you are looking for, but to this day I haven’t found a RIP do that. They all have their own downfalls that others excel in. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by johnson4

[anum11]

On 12/19/2022 at 2:35 AM, johnson4 said:

I don’t believe there have been any updates to EK. 
 

my reference to running without a profile yielding more solid/bold colors have been with Cadlink. I’ve been out of the acro/ek scene for a few months now. 
 

My main point was it isn’t worth wasting your time profiling, even with spending a ton of money and time you likely won’t get the results you are after. I know I didn’t. 
 

I think I know what you are looking for, but to this day I haven’t found a RIP do that. They all have their own downfalls that others excel in. 

The chinese inks and films differs from batch to batch. That is why you cannot work a profile to be accurate. At least not for long. My films and inks made here in my country, i also sell them. Since it is people that i can see face to face and since here we have more quality control, that is why i can work a profile.

I also work with Cadlink’s main distrubitor in the area and can talk with him face to face. You guys need standart supplies first but over 2 years i never seen standart anything from china. They are always changing things. I heard there are some manufacturers in USA now but dont know about quality. Alao my DuPont distrubitor says DuPont is gettüng ready to make DTF inks and looking for some feedbacks. They will also deal with some companies to make film for their inks. Waiting for this to see how it will affect the DTF market.

I am trying to make cadlink a p700 driver as well as a few kothari special printing options. If i can make them make it, it will solve a lot of problems at once for epson printers.

Edited December 20, 2022 by anum11

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, anum11 said:

The chinese inks and films differs from batch to batch. That is why you cannot work a profile to be accurate. At least not for long. My films and inks made here in my country, i also sell them. Since it is people that i can see face to face and since here we have more quality control, that is why i can work a profile.

I also work with Cadlink’s main distrubitor in the area and can talk with him face to face. You guys need standart supplies first but over 2 years i never seen standart anything from china. They are always changing things. I heard there are some manufacturers in USA now but dont know about quality. Alao my DuPont distrubitor says DuPont is gettüng ready to make DTF inks and looking for some feedbacks. They will also deal with some companies to make film for their inks. Waiting for this to see how it will affect the DTF market.

I am trying to make cadlink a p700 driver as well as a few kothari special printing options. If i can make them make it, it will solve a lot of problems at once for epson printers.

I personally haven't noticed this from DTFsuperstore inks. I am however switching to kodak inks in off-season if they work well, they are made in the US and closer to me. 

 

I order my film from china, out of the last 300 rolls I haven't seen any issues or discrepancies. There were a ton of issues in the beginning, enough to really put a bind on me, but since then it's been very good.  I lost maybe 15 rolls which they replaced which was cool. 

Dupont DTF inks sounds exciting, that is mainly what I used for DTG. If they take forever getting it to market and Kodak works well I likely won't use it though unfortunately. 

Something I would like to see is a good quality TPU at a decent price in the US. I haven't seen that yet. 

Since I started back when Andy decided to start DTFSuperstore It has been a hell of alot of changes and learning curves. Since then though people are starving and starting to sell stuff below profitable regions, likely without knowing it. 

For us with federal and state taxes, overhead, all that jazz mixed with people working their way down ( in mass) to selling the stuff for $1-$2 a foot, It's getting to that point of not worth it even with the cheap prices of materials. I am not certain paying more for premium materials is in the scope of most peoples eyes, so hopefully it is all " well priced". 

I have done the math over and over again using a 24" 4 head machine as an example with an estimated yearly repair cost of $5000 (assuming once a year you'll need to replace the printheads)  and a base maintenance cost of around $500 yearly. Add in the initial startup cost, purchased from a USA dealer or overseas directly. 

Mix that in with bulk supply costs of less than $60 per roll of 24" film, bulk ink and powder prices all from china ( The lowest prices around) it still makes it very difficult to turn a solid profit at those prices, especially for Epson based machines. 

 

People like quality, but people like speed and low cost more, especially on the end user bulk finished transfer customers. 

 

I hold my business to a minimum of 35 percent profit after all costs including electric, tax,  all of the aforementioned and any other costs I incur.  The only thing this excludes is the 50+ hour work week of labor for us. That means 35 percent of what we make is our paycheck for the time it takes to produce and deliver the finished product. 

 

If you increase ink costs and film costs by a modest margin, well, That will eat up my profit unless I charge more. While possible if it holds quality to a much higher standard, I doubt it will be that much of a difference. What I produce now with these supplies that have been rather consistent, I do not have any issue with receiving compliments of them being better than any other supplier they have used on an almost daily basis. 

 

To date with the Chinese supplies I use I haven't had any issues almost all year, if those issues cost more than using a higher quality product, I would switch including my time. 

 

I see that to be very hard to compete with unless some type of conflict were to occur, then if people had no choice of course the USA stuff would sell like hot cakes. If they came in with a introductory price or some other " difference" that made them appealing, maybe. 

 

I'm not saying it's not great and wouldn't be a great alternative, I am just saying that I believe the Chinese market has now evened out and weeded out the good/bad stuff. Competing with those prices for product that works, well it's going to be hard. Mix that in with starving businesses who went in debt $5,000-$50,000 to start this type of work, They'll do anything to get their foot in the door. Multiply that by the amount of people doing so- It puts a strain on the rest of the industry that holds themselves to higher standards and using higher quality materials. 

 

Beyond that, you will also have OEM's pickup on the trend and start selling their own equipment and machines locked to their supplies, further reducing the need for aftermarket products. These devices need to be brought in at a reasonable price to compare to the alredy relatively low Chinese prices in order to compete, or at least make it worthwhile. 

 

Who knows, we'll see. 

[johnson4]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:01 PM, johnson4 said:

I personally haven't noticed this from DTFsuperstore inks. I am however switching to kodak inks in off-season if they work well, they are made in the US and closer to me. 

 

I order my film from china, out of the last 300 rolls I haven't seen any issues or discrepancies. There were a ton of issues in the beginning, enough to really put a bind on me, but since then it's been very good.  I lost maybe 15 rolls which they replaced which was cool. 

Dupont DTF inks sounds exciting, that is mainly what I used for DTG. If they take forever getting it to market and Kodak works well I likely won't use it though unfortunately. 

Something I would like to see is a good quality TPU at a decent price in the US. I haven't seen that yet. 

Since I started back when Andy decided to start DTFSuperstore It has been a hell of alot of changes and learning curves. Since then though people are starving and starting to sell stuff below profitable regions, likely without knowing it. 

For us with federal and state taxes, overhead, all that jazz mixed with people working their way down ( in mass) to selling the stuff for $1-$2 a foot, It's getting to that point of not worth it even with the cheap prices of materials. I am not certain paying more for premium materials is in the scope of most peoples eyes, so hopefully it is all " well priced". 

I have done the math over and over again using a 24" 4 head machine as an example with an estimated yearly repair cost of $5000 (assuming once a year you'll need to replace the printheads)  and a base maintenance cost of around $500 yearly. Add in the initial startup cost, purchased from a USA dealer or overseas directly. 

Mix that in with bulk supply costs of less than $60 per roll of 24" film, bulk ink and powder prices all from china ( The lowest prices around) it still makes it very difficult to turn a solid profit at those prices, especially for Epson based machines. 

 

People like quality, but people like speed and low cost more, especially on the end user bulk finished transfer customers. 

 

I hold my business to a minimum of 35 percent profit after all costs including electric, tax,  all of the aforementioned and any other costs I incur.  The only thing this excludes is the 50+ hour work week of labor for us. That means 35 percent of what we make is our paycheck for the time it takes to produce and deliver the finished product. 

 

If you increase ink costs and film costs by a modest margin, well, That will eat up my profit unless I charge more. While possible if it holds quality to a much higher standard, I doubt it will be that much of a difference. What I produce now with these supplies that have been rather consistent, I do not have any issue with receiving compliments of them being better than any other supplier they have used on an almost daily basis. 

 

To date with the Chinese supplies I use I haven't had any issues almost all year, if those issues cost more than using a higher quality product, I would switch including my time. 

 

I see that to be very hard to compete with unless some type of conflict were to occur, then if people had no choice of course the USA stuff would sell like hot cakes. If they came in with a introductory price or some other " difference" that made them appealing, maybe. 

 

I'm not saying it's not great and wouldn't be a great alternative, I am just saying that I believe the Chinese market has now evened out and weeded out the good/bad stuff. Competing with those prices for product that works, well it's going to be hard. Mix that in with starving businesses who went in debt $5,000-$50,000 to start this type of work, They'll do anything to get their foot in the door. Multiply that by the amount of people doing so- It puts a strain on the rest of the industry that holds themselves to higher standards and using higher quality materials. 

 

Beyond that, you will also have OEM's pickup on the trend and start selling their own equipment and machines locked to their supplies, further reducing the need for aftermarket products. These devices need to be brought in at a reasonable price to compare to the alredy relatively low Chinese prices in order to compete, or at least make it worthwhile. 

 

Who knows, we'll see. 

I think I went a little off topic here. My main point is I hope that the price stays competitive. Because some of us run a fine line. While we dealt with poor quality imports in the beginning, It's now rather consistent. 

[anum11]

Yeah that is what i also hope

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, anum11 said:

Yeah that is what i also hope

Feel free to post a link if/when you sell the stuff. I'd like to check it out myself. I am sure others would as well.  While I am not currently having issues, I always check out my options

Edited December 26, 2022 by johnson4

[anum11]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:45 PM, johnson4 said:

Feel free to post a link if/when you sell the stuff. I'd like to check it out myself. I am sure others would as well.  While I am not currently having issues, I always check out my options

Ofc my inks are very wet. So it is harder to cure also needs more white if you want to cover back side of print completely. 
 

but there is a big pro. ink does not clog, at all. I tested on a few machines for 1 month without opening printers. even 1 nozzle is not missing without even ant head cleaning. White sits ofc but it does not clog, any circulation or vibration all sitting pigments goes away.

that is why i adjusted my systems to inks. Got pet film that can hold very big amounts of wet ink, made my ovens longer and curing heat as high as possible without damaging print out etc. Everything adjusted for ink 😀

Edited December 29, 2022 by anum11

[johnson4]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:50 AM, anum11 said:

Ofc my inks are very wet. So it is harder to cure also needs more white if you want to cover back side of print completely. 
 

but there is a big pro. ink does not clog, at all. I tested on a few machines for 1 month without opening printers. even 1 nozzle is not missing without even ant head cleaning. White sits ofc but it does not clog, any circulation or vibration all sitting pigments goes away.

that is why i adjusted my systems to inks. Got pet film that can hold very big amounts of wet ink, made my ovens longer and curing heat as high as possible without damaging print out etc. Everything adjusted for ink 😀

Have you tried a larger pre-heater? Might be easier when selling to consumers if they can turn up the pre-heater. I had to add one to mine that was missing one.  I don't really get clogs from the Chinese inks, maybe once every 100 foot or so I'll have to do a head clean, it's not often. Used to it happened quite a bit, a year or so ago.  I have yet to try the Kodak, but I will soon. 

 

The main issue is when the white ink is in the ink system the white pigment drops out and gums on the ink system/ dampers which causes issues if not properly maintained. If someone could find a suspension that could hold the white ink and prevent this from happening like the CMYK ink, that would be the bees knees. From the sounds of it though yours still does this. The issue pops up after 5 micron filters and the ink separates and goes into the head as " sludge". That's what gets my printers anyway and usually takes them out. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by johnson4

[anum11]

it does seperate. But pigments does not become gum. When there is any circulation or shaking they seperate from each other and re-suspense into fluid.

[johnson4]

13 hours ago, anum11 said:

it does seperate. But pigments does not become gum. When there is any circulation or shaking they seperate from each other and re-suspense into fluid.

Interesting, that would be my number one problem with my white ink, which seems to vary barch to batch on how bad it gets.