P5000 conversion to DTF

[johnson4]

So I finally bit the bullet per say. 

 

I purchased and setup the P5000. The roll media would be perfect for DTF, it self feeds so no issues there.  The vacuum platen would be perfect in preventing head strikes- All around- it is a great candidate. For me though, I am looking for twice the speed of my P800, which is 12 foot an hour. Given it has 360 nozzles, it should print faster. 

 

First thing I noticed, the carriage speed is much slower than the p800, so it won't be twice as fast. I have tested it with EKprint, and it shows the same speed***  as the P800 under the same settings and conditions. However, EKprint does not officially support the P5000, so I am using the R4900 driver. I have reached out to them and they said they would work on it since the printer is functioning with it, just needs some tweaking. 

*** this is with the P5000 running uni-directional, while the P800 runs bi-directional for my timings. IF they can get the P5000 running bi-directional, Then it would be twice as fast. Technically, running the P800 on uni-directional AND the p5000 on uni-directional- it is almost twice as fast. 

Overall, the only issue right now is the P5000 is NOT printing in bi-directional mode. If it did, It would actually be printing twice as fast as the P800, or 2.5 minutes per foot. I have not tested cadlink with it yet, or Acro 10+. 

 

Another thing I noticed, the P5000 cartridges DO NOT have a filter in them. So, More than likely will need spare dampers in the event you get some crud in your ink when refilling and in general since the cartridge filter is the first line of defense usually. 

 

IF ekprint CAN make the P5000 work in bi-directional mode, With the uni-directional speeds I have taken, It will print roughly 12" X 21 feet an hour at 1440X1440 resolution. That's fast for a $1600 printer.

 

It's huge by the way- Freight truck delivery huge. So I wouldn't count on grabbing a refurbished unit, they send technicians out instead of freighting the printer back and forth. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by johnson4

[johnson4]

I will follow up as I find out things- but as-is, it works, just not as fast as I would have hoped.

[johnson4]

I'm excited to see If they can get it working in bi-directional mode. If they do, Then We'll have a printer than can do 20+ 12X12 prints an hour, with a vacuum table under the head, built in roll holder for the film that self feeds, and a few other awesome features like cutting printed sheets from the roll to remove waste. If you play your cards right, you can get a new one delivered for about $1650, selling the ink's for $350 making it around a $1300 investment. For speeds comparable to the dual I3200's, dual Xp600's, with a higher quality printhead. Printheads are about $1,100 for this machine. 

 

The only downfall- You use chip resetters. Since it's 200ML though, who cares.  it's not like the R2000 with 15ML cartridges. 200 ML will get me halfway through a roll or so, so if it works out right it'll be about every 7.5 hours of printing per reset.

Edited May 15, 2022 by johnson4

[anum11]

I did try a 4900 speed it seems same speed as p800. But with this head going under 720*720 might be possible. Just not with acrorip. Will try another software if i get good results will share it.

[Carlos4072]

19 hours ago, johnson4 said:

So I finally bit the bullet per say. 

 

I purchased and setup the P5000. The roll media would be perfect for DTF, it self feeds so no issues there.  The vacuum platen would be perfect in preventing head strikes- All around- it is a great candidate. For me though, I am looking for twice the speed of my P800, which is 12 foot an hour. Given it has 360 nozzles, it should print faster. 

 

First thing I noticed, the carriage speed is much slower than the p800, so it won't be twice as fast. I have tested it with EKprint, and it shows the same speed***  as the P800 under the same settings and conditions. However, EKprint does not officially support the P5000, so I am using the R4900 driver. I have reached out to them and they said they would work on it since the printer is functioning with it, just needs some tweaking. 

*** this is with the P5000 running uni-directional, while the P800 runs bi-directional for my timings. IF they can get the P5000 running bi-directional, Then it would be twice as fast. Technically, running the P800 on uni-directional AND the p5000 on uni-directional- it is almost twice as fast. 

Overall, the only issue right now is the P5000 is NOT printing in bi-directional mode. If it did, It would actually be printing twice as fast as the P800, or 2.5 minutes per foot. I have not tested cadlink with it yet, or Acro 10+. 

 

Another thing I noticed, the P5000 cartridges DO NOT have a filter in them. So, More than likely will need spare dampers in the event you get some crud in your ink when refilling and in general since the cartridge filter is the first line of defense usually. 

 

IF ekprint CAN make the P5000 work in bi-directional mode, With the uni-directional speeds I have taken, It will print roughly 12" X 21 feet an hour at 1440X1440 resolution. That's fast for a $1600 printer.

 

It's huge by the way- Freight truck delivery huge. So I wouldn't count on grabbing a refurbished unit, they send technicians out instead of freighting the printer back and forth. 

This is great info. This P5000 still in production and in stock ? I think that bidirectional printing will be possible for sure, the question is wich rip will do it first. Good luck with your new printer dude.

[johnson4]

47 minutes ago, Carlos4072 said:

This is great info. This P5000 still in production and in stock ? I think that bidirectional printing will be possible for sure, the question is wich rip will do it first. Good luck with your new printer dude.

I'm certain other rips already do it, Each rip has it's own "driver" and how it prints. Usually cadlink is slower, Acro is slow to process and print, I chose EKprint because It produces more product faster, using an ICC profile with it it does everything I need it to. 

 

The P5000 Is still in production, but for some reason I have a feeling it wont be for long. They already discontinued the paper holder on the P5000, and the printer itself is basically the same as the R4900, with small aesthetic changes. I'll keep an eye on them. 

 

But, the printer itself seems like an almost plug and play DTF printer to be honest, As-is. Has everything you would need to mass produce product, with the downfall of 200ML carts instead of 1000ML tanks. 

 

We'll see though. I've wanted one for over a year now. Thanks!

Edited May 15, 2022 by johnson4

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, anum11 said:

I did try a 4900 speed it seems same speed as p800. But with this head going under 720*720 might be possible. Just not with acrorip. Will try another software if i get good results will share it.

Is your 4900 printing in bi-direction? I'm getting 5 minutes a 12X12 on the P800 in bi-direction 1440X1440.  5 minutes 30 seconds on the P5000 12X12 in uni-direction on EKprint 1440X1440. Acro was one of the slower programs, I haven't used the newer versions though, just 9.03. I was waiting on 11 to come out but it's getting to the point I'll probably pass on that too with all the delays.

Edited May 15, 2022 by johnson4

[anum11]

17 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Is your 4900 printing in bi-direction? I'm getting 5 minutes a 12X12 on the P800 in bi-direction 1440X1440.  5 minutes 30 seconds on the P5000 12X12 in uni-direction on EKprint 1440X1440. Acro was one of the slower programs, I haven't used the newer versions though, just 9.03. I was waiting on 11 to come out but it's getting to the point I'll probably pass on that too with all the delays.

it is bidirection with acrorip. it prints identical to p400 which confused me. I will try it with texprint.

[johnson4]

2 hours ago, anum11 said:

it is bidirection with acrorip. it prints identical to p400 which confused me. I will try it with texprint.

Yea, that is weird. It's clear the printer should print faster, If they can design the driver for it correctly. 

 

Do you have the purchased EKprint or just the demo?

[4C Print Shop]

The P5000 has 2 versions, a regular and a commercial version with a wider color gamut. Does it make any differences which one is used for DTF?

[johnson4]

6 hours ago, 4C Print Shop said:

The P5000 has 2 versions, a regular and a commercial version with a wider color gamut. Does it make any differences which one is used for DTF?

the printer is identical across the models of p5000. The commercial comes with violet ink which can’t be used. Just use an LLK cartridge instead if you get this one. 
 

rips are setup to accommodate the LLK version from what I understand. It can’t be changed after initial setup with flashing the eeprom. 

[anum11]

22 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Yea, that is weird. It's clear the printer should print faster, If they can design the driver for it correctly. 

 

Do you have the purchased EKprint or just the demo?

no not tried with ek.

[johnson4]

2 minutes ago, anum11 said:

no not tried with ek.

Gotcha. What acro version are you using? 

[anum11]

19 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Gotcha. What acro version are you using? 

10.3 and 10.5 both same speed.

[johnson4]

2 hours ago, anum11 said:

10.3 and 10.5 both same speed.

Thanks. Does 10.5 process job any faster? 

[twjoe]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:41 PM, johnson4 said:

The only downfall- You use chip resetters. Since it's 200ML though, who cares.  it's not like the R2000 with 15ML cartridges. 200 ML will get me halfway through a roll or so, so if it works out right it'll be about every 7.5 hours of printing per reset.

I've looked for a chip resetter for the p5000 but I could only find single use chips. Does a 4900 chip resetter work for the p5000?

[johnson4]

8 minutes ago, twjoe said:

I've looked for a chip resetter for the p5000 but I could only find single use chips. Does a 4900 chip resetter work for the p5000?

Yes. It's just as slow as the P800 though. 

[TeedUp]

22 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Yes. It's just as slow as the P800 though. 

Sounds like the P5000 hasn't dethroned your dual xp600's, or are you holding out hope for a white knight driver rescue?

 

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, TeedUp said:

Sounds like the P5000 hasn't dethroned your dual xp600's, or are you holding out hope for a white knight driver rescue?

 

I'm working on it, Sounds like EKprint isn't going to work with it in bi-directional mode. I have 4 other RIPS to try out with it though. Likely due to it being the only 360 printer they support and the driver just not made correctly and not being worth the time/effort. Who knows though, I have no idea what goes on in making stuff like that work. 

 

If I can get 15+ out of it, I'll go for it. If not, It's not really worth it. 

 

I doubt it will beat the dual XP600's but it should. The only reason it has to be dual is due to the 4 channel head, so they use one for white and one for color to achieve 360 nozzles per color CMYK.  The P5000 should be able to obtain similar speeds being 360 X 10 and basing the speeds from other 180 nozzle prints under the same conditions. 

 

IF they did make a bi-directional update, then it would absolutely be 20+ an hour out of it. 

 

I don't want to use another RIP but If I have to I have to. Time to get things moving.  

Edited May 21, 2022 by johnson4

[Carlos4072]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:21 AM, johnson4 said:

Thanks. Does 10.5 process job any faster? 

Acrorip 10+ is much faster, than Arcorip 9.03,  in somce cases 10x faster, from load images, to the rip process itself (i recorded a video comparision.). Also Acrorip let you choose between unidirectional or bidirectional in any printer, then could be a very good rip for test your p5000.

[johnson4]

4 hours ago, Carlos4072 said:

Acrorip 10+ is much faster, than Arcorip 9.03,  in somce cases 10x faster, from load images, to the rip process itself (i recorded a video comparision.). Also Acrorip let you choose between unidirectional or bidirectional in any printer, then could be a very good rip for test your p5000.

Thanks. Ironically I’ve asked for something like this from every dealer, and their website contact before on multiple occasions. Being a total stranger you’ve been more helpful than any supplier or associated entity of Acrorip that I have reached out to. 
 

may I ask the size of that image that was printed in this example? 

 

 

[Carlos4072]

14 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Thanks. Ironically I’ve asked for something like this from every dealer, and their website contact before on multiple occasions. Being a total stranger you’ve been more helpful than any supplier or associated entity of Acrorip that I have reached out to. 
 

may I ask the size of that image that was printed in this example? 

 

 

Good to know that was useful for you. This recording was A3 size, but in my p800 i usually send to print 43x50 in more or less the same time, honestly Acro10 is very fast for load images and send jobs to print. Also, check the compatibility list, your p5000 is supported alredy. 

[Carlos4072]

Also, if you are interested, you can upload any image ready to print, and i can record for you the loading and rip times. Please let me know

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Carlos4072 said:

Good to know that was useful for you. This recording was A3 size, but in my p800 i usually send to print 43x50 in more or less the same time, honestly Acro10 is very fast for load images and send jobs to print. Also, check the compatibility list, your p5000 is supported alredy. 

I do see it in your list, On the website and other information they only mention the printer being supported for the cut function, not actually under the supported printers list which made me weary of it. 

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Carlos4072 said:

Also, if you are interested, you can upload any image ready to print, and i can record for you the loading and rip times. Please let me know

I very much appreciate that. I however will take your word for it, I do see the clear differences from the video. It was mainly out of curiosity because I couldn't make out the size it was. 

 

Again I appreciate the information.

Edited May 22, 2022 by johnson4