Anyone with electrical knowledge have any idea how to repair a part of the mini shaker?

[johnson4]

5 minutes ago, Mdrake2016 said:

I noticed just today that the powder is not coming through the original holes in the duster. I lifted it while it was working and it was only coming out of the 10ish holes that I drilled. That’s definitely a problem. 

I'm going to be honest with you, I wish they would have stuck with the first design I received. Yes it needed a few changes, nothing really but to satisfy my needs. This 2nd one, It's just a pain in the ass.

[Mdrake2016]

1 hour ago, johnson4 said:

I'm going to be honest with you, I wish they would have stuck with the first design I received. Yes it needed a few changes, nothing really but to satisfy my needs. This 2nd one, It's just a pain in the ass.

Yea this whole machine has been a nightmare. I’ll have to check those little holes you’re talking about to get that fixed. 
 

Unfortunately, I lost a big source of income that gave me 95% of my work this week, so I probably won’t be using this machine much for now. But I’m going to mess around with it here and there and see if I can improve it somehow in case I do get some more work. 

[johnson4]

@Mdrake2016 So, After some time F'n around I decided to change some stuff on the powder. my issue is getting the perfect amount of powder. either it's too much, or too little, or the motor quits because its low. 

 

So, Instead, I made the powder flow max, and turned it all the way up. I used a Timer: ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T3KCQZB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

Right now I'm fine tuning it, since different slapper speeds will cause more/less powder to fall off, But After 5 minutes I've nearly perfected it. For my setup, The duster on Max, with all the holes bigger, It runs 45 seconds on, and 4 minutes off for the powder. working perfect, and has GREATLY extended my run time before refilling powder. Now I'm getting over 3 hours run time without adding powder. Mix that with the guides for the take-up roller, ( and thanks to the 80ML P800 carts) you stand there doing nothing.

I was done trying to get the perfect powder coming out, without clogging, stopping, too much, all that. This is the best $13 I've ever spent on this thing, that and the $10 take up roller guides I made. 

[Mdrake2016]

15 hours ago, johnson4 said:

@Mdrake2016 So, After some time F'n around I decided to change some stuff on the powder. my issue is getting the perfect amount of powder. either it's too much, or too little, or the motor quits because its low. 

 

So, Instead, I made the powder flow max, and turned it all the way up. I used a Timer: ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07T3KCQZB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

Right now I'm fine tuning it, since different slapper speeds will cause more/less powder to fall off, But After 5 minutes I've nearly perfected it. For my setup, The duster on Max, with all the holes bigger, It runs 45 seconds on, and 4 minutes off for the powder. working perfect, and has GREATLY extended my run time before refilling powder. Now I'm getting over 3 hours run time without adding powder. Mix that with the guides for the take-up roller, ( and thanks to the 80ML P800 carts) you stand there doing nothing.

I was done trying to get the perfect powder coming out, without clogging, stopping, too much, all that. This is the best $13 I've ever spent on this thing, that and the $10 take up roller guides I made. 

 

Man that’s great. This is with using your extra “box” that allows you to have about 5lb or powder sitting on the machine correct? I’m here trying to catch up on orders and refilling every 20ish minutes or so. 

Can I ask how you get all that powder to sit under in your turkey pan without it overflowing on the sides or piling up? I know you raised the whole machine a bit but with the powder coming off the sides of the film, mine just piles up on the sides until it touches the film above it.

By the way, since I cleared out the clogs and made a few extra larger holes, my motor seems to be working way better. No real strain from what I see. I think the humidity is causing the powder to get sticky and get stuck in the holes. From day 1 I’ve actually let my powder sit in the machine after every use and I think it should’ve been moved to a lower humidity area instead. 

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, Mdrake2016 said:

 

Man that’s great. This is with using your extra “box” that allows you to have about 5lb or powder sitting on the machine correct? I’m here trying to catch up on orders and refilling every 20ish minutes or so. 

Can I ask how you get all that powder to sit under in your turkey pan without it overflowing on the sides or piling up? I know you raised the whole machine a bit but with the powder coming off the sides of the film, mine just piles up on the sides until it touches the film above it.

By the way, since I cleared out the clogs and made a few extra larger holes, my motor seems to be working way better. No real strain from what I see. I think the humidity is causing the powder to get sticky and get stuck in the holes. From day 1 I’ve actually let my powder sit in the machine after every use and I think it should’ve been moved to a lower humidity area instead. 

It just does, the pan is a bit wider than the hole, so it's not piling up on the sides. It does tower around where it comes off the film, but that takes quite a while before it causes an issue since the pan is deeper and it rolls off the top. But, every now and again I just tap the pan with my foot and it all falls down, I've ran it without doing that before too, so I just do it whenever I inspect the prints coming out of the printer. 

 

That's good to hear on the powder/motor. Something I learned about the powder, if it's compressed in any way, it will want to hold that shape, which happens in my 5lb box. I always try to run it empty. It hasn't been an issue with clogging, i just don't add more powder until its actually empty. Its been working great though with the timer, It makes me wonder why it didn't come that way.

[Mr.Carter]

17 hours ago, johnson4 said:

It just does, the pan is a bit wider than the hole, so it's not piling up on the sides. It does tower around where it comes off the film, but that takes quite a while before it causes an issue since the pan is deeper and it rolls off the top. But, every now and again I just tap the pan with my foot and it all falls down, I've ran it without doing that before too, so I just do it whenever I inspect the prints coming out of the printer. 

 

That's good to hear on the powder/motor. Something I learned about the powder, if it's compressed in any way, it will want to hold that shape, which happens in my 5lb box. I always try to run it empty. It hasn't been an issue with clogging, i just don't add more powder until its actually empty. Its been working great though with the timer, It makes me wonder why it didn't come that way.

Improvement sounds good great job json

[johnson4]

@Mdrake2016 is your slapper also too small to accommodate 13” film? They made it shorter instead of cutting. Notch for the bolt. So I’ll have to fix that too. 

[johnson4]

[Mdrake2016]

On 11/17/2021 at 4:01 PM, johnson4 said:

Sorry I somehow completely missed your last 2 posts here. 
 

Yes mine has the same problem as well. I’m guessing that’s why I had issues with the power sticking to the sides of my prints. Didn’t even think about that. 
 

I’ve gone through a few pages on this thread to see what modifications you made. Overall other than the brush problem, my heating has been an issue too. I put an aluminum plate but it didn’t help much. It looks like the holes over the bulbs as you mentioned could be the main problem with my heating. After taping the existing holes, you said you drilled 8 holes correct (4 between each bulb)? We’re the holes larger than the existing ones?

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Mdrake2016 said:

Sorry I somehow completely missed your last 2 posts here. 
 

Yes mine has the same problem as well. I’m guessing that’s why I had issues with the power sticking to the sides of my prints. Didn’t even think about that. 
 

I’ve gone through a few pages on this thread to see what modifications you made. Overall other than the brush problem, my heating has been an issue too. I put an aluminum plate but it didn’t help much. It looks like the holes over the bulbs as you mentioned could be the main problem with my heating. After taping the existing holes, you said you drilled 8 holes correct (4 between each bulb)? We’re the holes larger than the existing ones?

to kind of sum up what I did:

1. Cut a notch in the slapper plate and extended it. The two metal pieces that hold the silicone. There is a bolt on one side. I cut a notch here so I can move this bar over more. I then used 1/8 thick silicone sheet and cut with scissors to make it as wide as possible and attached on the other side. I just used some cheap thin aluminum plate here. It formed around the rod because it's so thin and works well. 

1A( Why). the original problem here on the new shaker, the protruding " round thing" where the motor is attached to the slapper sticks out too far into the slapper box and the overall slapper length is only roughly 12". The original shaker, this " protruding motor mount" was shorter, and the slapper was over 13" in total length. If you don't have at least 1/2 inch of excess on both sides of your film, you get issues with the powder. So whatever mod you need to achieve that. 

2. I added the timer and opened every row on the powder box, in your case making some bigger wouldn't be a bad idea. I then used a cheap $12 timer and set the unit to "max". The timer cycle is adjustable to ON time and OFF time. I easily found the sweet spot and go over 4 hours now without even looking at the powder usage let alone refilling it. I did this at the motor on the hopper. Cut the wires, run to timer, out of timer to motor. easily enough room and wire, so its " always on" on the machine, while the timer controls it's actual on time. 

2A. ( Why). The overall design of this is stupid on the 2nd one, it's flawed. Instead of fighting with it, I decided to run a timer and full blast. It just turns on/off to a set amount of time instead of trying to find a constant flow. Having the U hold powder instead of " dropping" powder on the printer is a better method, it also adds weight to the film and pull it down so the slapper hits it a bit harder, further making it better for excess powder removal. 

3. The heater box is also POORLY designed. They have LARGE holes all throughout the units roof. this allows too much airflow, causing it not to heat correctly or maintain even heat. I didn't drill anything here. Mine has 6 rows of 6 holes. Those individual holes are WAY to large. I took the two screws off and lowered the heating assy. I used HVAC aluminum tape ( Heavy duty) and placed it over ALL the holes on the backside. Make care to see that no paper is left behind on the tape. Through testing, I simply opened up one hole at a time in various locations to get an even suction without it being too much. So like this:

 

••••••

••••••

••••••

••••••

••••••

••••••

 

This how the roof originally looked. The missing dots in the illistration are OPEN, the rest are closed. 

 

••      •• ( center two)

  •••• ( outer two, one each side)  

•  ••••• ( one hole near the left side by not the edge one, this is where the temp sensor is and too close will cause mis-readings) 

•••••• ( the 4th row is completly blocked off, no open holes)

•  •••  • ( two holes open, one on each side 1 in from the edge hole).

 

3A ( Why). The reason I did it this way, was to allow air to flow front and back, limit that flow, and keep airflow away from the thermostat. As-is, It's pulling cold air over the coils and the T-stat, causing issues.  This entirely solved my problem- I get one photo would suffice, but I dont have a chance to do that at the moment. 

4. I added an adapter up top to fit 4" hvac hose. Clearly this was originally designed for a fume extractor to be used with it, hence the issue with too much air flow in a sealed system. the way this unit was designed to work was for the fumes and stuff to come out of the top naturally with no air flow, and a " gap" with a slight suction ABOVE not on the top vent to pull away the fumes without any actual vacuum. 

5. I had to add the edge guides on the take up roller. Saves so much time and headache. 

6. Added the powder box on the hopper. 

7. Added feet to the shaker with spacers to make it taller yet adjustable. I use a Big metal pan under the unit to catch the powder. It's deep and wide so it never really piles up to the point of an issue. It just "towers" down the sides of the "hump" on each side. It never reaches the point of touching the film with 8lbs of powder. I also make the front slightly lower than the back, so all that liquid from the curing of the ink doesn't run back into my powder, rather forward into the floor. 

 

I think that's it, but realistically thats basically everything. Lol. Modified powder box, slapper, curing unit and takeup roller. What's left?

 

I'll add photos later on when I'm not busy to clear up any confusion. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by johnson4

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Mdrake2016 said:

Sorry I somehow completely missed your last 2 posts here. 
 

Yes mine has the same problem as well. I’m guessing that’s why I had issues with the power sticking to the sides of my prints. Didn’t even think about that. 
 

I’ve gone through a few pages on this thread to see what modifications you made. Overall other than the brush problem, my heating has been an issue too. I put an aluminum plate but it didn’t help much. It looks like the holes over the bulbs as you mentioned could be the main problem with my heating. After taping the existing holes, you said you drilled 8 holes correct (4 between each bulb)? We’re the holes larger than the existing ones?

The plate will help once that holes are taken care of. It will make the heat consistent ( once it's able to get up to temp) by warming the underside as well as the top side. It also helps fix the "edge" curing problem quite a bit. 

This is just what I had to do to mine, i'm sure other ways would work as well. This is just what I did to get it to work correctly on my " version" of the new unit. 

 

The old unit had some issues, but Its nothing like this at all. It just worked anyway, with minor changes for my convenience that wasn't exactly required to work. The new Relays haven't showed a bit of a sign of wear with equal usage on the last " knock off" set it came with. 

This new unit, Explains exactly why he stopped carrying them.  I would easily buy another " first revision" in a heartbeat. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by johnson4

[Mdrake2016]

2 hours ago, johnson4 said:

3. The heater box is also POORLY designed. They have LARGE holes all throughout the units roof. this allows too much airflow, causing it not to heat correctly or maintain even heat. I didn't drill anything here. Mine has 6 rows of 6 holes. Those individual holes are WAY to large. I took the two screws off and lowered the heating assy. I used HVAC aluminum tape ( Heavy duty) and placed it over ALL the holes on the backside. Make care to see that no paper is left behind on the tape. Through testing, I simply opened up one hole at a time in various locations to get an even suction without it being too much. So like this:

 

••••••

••••••

••••••

••••••

••••••

••••••

 

This how the roof originally looked. The missing dots in the illistration are OPEN, the rest are closed. 

 

••      •• ( center two)

  •••• ( outer two, one each side)  

•  ••••• ( one hole near the left side by not the edge one, this is where the temp sensor is and too close will cause mis-readings) 

•••••• ( the 4th row is completly blocked off, no open holes)

•  •••  • ( two holes open, one on each side 1 in from the edge hole).

 

 

 

I think I pretty much understand everything you explained in your post, but this part here about the holes sounds like your unit may be a bit different.

Mine has 3 heating bulbs with 9 holes directly over each one. The holes are about 1/4". Tough to take a good pic but take a look here: 

 

In my case, it looks like I may actually need to drill holes in between the bulbs to keep the heat in instead of escaping right away with holes being directly above. I didn't have a fume extractor on mine but I will be adding one, so I'm sure that will make it worse too unless I get this fixed.

[johnson4]

8 hours ago, Mdrake2016 said:

I think I pretty much understand everything you explained in your post, but this part here about the holes sounds like your unit may be a bit different.

Mine has 3 heating bulbs with 9 holes directly over each one. The holes are about 1/4". Tough to take a good pic but take a look here: 

 

In my case, it looks like I may actually need to drill holes in between the bulbs to keep the heat in instead of escaping right away with holes being directly above. I didn't have a fume extractor on mine but I will be adding one, so I'm sure that will make it worse too unless I get this fixed.

That is different than mine, both of them. 

[johnson4]

Those droplets by the way is the glycerin in the ink. It’s important to extract it so that doesn’t accumulate, it makes a mess and can ruin prints 

[Mdrake2016]

9 hours ago, johnson4 said:

That is different than mine, both of them. 

So basically, whoever designed mine doesn’t like me. The thing sucks all around. 

[johnson4]

2 minutes ago, Mdrake2016 said:

So basically, whoever designed mine doesn’t like me. The thing sucks all around. 

Lol, my first one was nice. I wish he would have stayed with that supplier. It’s only one issue was the mechanical relays were knock off crap. Everything else worked well as is, the changes I made was to make it easier but not needed, like the hopper and whatnot. I’ve been running this one daily for 8+ months, I haven’t had a single issue since I replaced the relays. 
 

the 2nd one actually needed modifications to work at all, kinda like yours. It’s a good start, but just needs work to run. 
 

you could always look into the 24” shaker, but it’s like 4K. I’m sure those don’t have any of these issues. These units we have were built for a total manufacturer cost of less than $400- likely around $200-$300. Any “quality control” likely removes at least half that profit so it’s likely skipped. Last I checked these cost about $425-$500 each, plus all the stuff listed below, then they just push out whatever comes down the line. 

Add shipping, import taxes, sales tax, overhead, blah blah blah- makes it come out to around $1,000 as-is because every step of the way some entity has their hand out in some form of taxes or fees. Then whoever sells it needs to make a profit and factor in customer service, overhead, damaged good costs etc. 

 

so in reality we are using $200-$400 mini shakers. The bigger problem is they’ll send generic photos of them since they look the same but won’t function the same so it’s next to impossible to get a reliable machine aside from “ luck of the draw”. 
 

if I had paid $1000-$1500 for my 2nd machine I’d be PISSED, but he sold the one I bought as “DIY” because of the issues with that batch so it was about $600 delivered and he sold them at a loss and stopped carrying them. 

[oniman217]

Just adding my $0.02. Seems like all of these cheap shakers have some sort of weird differences. Mine for example doesn't use two relays. The heating element on mine uses an AC contactor.

Edited December 10, 2021 by oniman217

[johnson4]

30 minutes ago, oniman217 said:

Just adding my $0.02. Seems like all of these cheap shakers have some sort of weird differences. Mine for example doesn't use two relays. The heating element on mine uses an AC contactor.

The same relay is also used in HVAC instances, Is it a knock off saying something like LY2? there isn't anything wrong with this relay, as long as you pick up a genuine OMRON one. I tried like 8 different places including ebay and amazon. Even if the photos were right, they still came as knock offs. Places like mouser.com had the legit ones. A few different models will work, one difference for example is a little LED light that says when its activated, that doesn't matter. But yea, These same relays are used in MANY instances, Ever since I've replaced my clones that came with the machine, these new ones show no signs of wear or issues in the 5,000+ transfers I've made since putting them in. The first set of clones failed already by now. 

Yea, They all seem to be different. If only one company gave a shit to make a huge legit profit and made a unit that just worked and kept that the same. The 1st one I purchased was the first one sold from DTFsuperstore. It has been an awesome machine, given a couple tiny flaws, mainly with the knock off relays it came with. It has been an absolute beast at knocking out prints paired with a P800. 

 

I've just been turning it on and printing 1/2 a roll a day now for at least 3+ months without a single issue with it. Likely longer or just stupid things I tinker with. The changes I made, I just stand here doing other things while it prints- every few hours I recycle the powder. Thats it. It's actually pretty boring so I'll tinker with this 2nd shaker sometimes, which is overall in my opinion a crap build. They don't even use bung holes for the bolts. The 2nd one is held together with sheet metal screws.

 

The 2nd one- I don't regret the purchase, But I did underestimate the poor quality ALL around so it's more than a " quick project". I have it heating perfect now, so curing is working well. Takeup roller guide added, so thats fine. Powder timer was added so thats fine, The issue i'm facing now is one half of my machine is 1/2 longer than the other, So EVERYTHING is crooked, including the slapper and the plate where the film goes so it's constantly running/slapping crooked. Didn't expect that. lol.  

 

 

Good Luck with your Mini!

Edited December 10, 2021 by johnson4

[johnson4]

37 minutes ago, oniman217 said:

Just adding my $0.02. Seems like all of these cheap shakers have some sort of weird differences. Mine for example doesn't use two relays. The heating element on mine uses an AC contactor.

If it's literally an AC contactor, that's crazy. I'd question if it was capable of handling that type of continuous cycling. 

So far I've seen now:

LY2 Relays

Solid State Relays

AC contactor

The crazy thing to me, this new SHAKER uses 220V for the takeup motor. Crazy stupid for the little/no protection it has. It's like a cheap screw on plug that has MALE prongs that are LIVE. 

At least the first one had this as a standard 12V DC plug running 12V. 

 

[oniman217]

15 hours ago, johnson4 said:

If it's literally an AC contactor, that's crazy. I'd question if it was capable of handling that type of continuous cycling. 

So far I've seen now:

LY2 Relays

Solid State Relays

AC contactor

The crazy thing to me, this new SHAKER uses 220V for the takeup motor. Crazy stupid for the little/no protection it has. It's like a cheap screw on plug that has MALE prongs that are LIVE. 

At least the first one had this as a standard 12V DC plug running 12V. 

 

Yeah I'm not sure how well it would perform. For the takeup motor, did yours look similar to this? The outlet thing looks and feels super cheap and lightweight, and its connected to the LYN2 relay, the contactor is connected to the heating elements. Seems like one of them is connected to the contactor directly, and the other two are in parallel connecting to the contactor 

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, oniman217 said:

Yeah I'm not sure how well it would perform. For the takeup motor, did yours look similar to this? The outlet thing looks and feels super cheap and lightweight, and its connected to the LYN2 relay, the contactor is connected to the heating elements. Seems like one of them is connected to the contactor directly, and the other two are in parallel connecting to the contactor 

That’s completely different. One machine I have runs the LY2 (12V coil) for the take up roller and the heating elements. The take up roller relay failed and was grounding to the frame on mine. The heating elements suffered due to carbon build up and poor performance until I changed that one. 
 

the other one has two Solid state relays instead of the ly2.
 

The one I have has 220V like this: 

Edited December 10, 2021 by johnson4

[johnson4]

Just now, johnson4 said:

That’s completely different. One machine I have runs the LY2 (12V coil) for the take up roller and the heating elements. The take up roller relay failed and was grounding to the frame on mine. The heating elements suffered due to carbon build up and poor performance until I changed that one. 
 

The one I have has 220V like this: 

Those are live 220V when the switch is on. 

[oniman217]

20 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

Those are live 220V when the switch is on. 

Wow that looks incredibly unsafe. a random strand of wire could fly in there and ruin your day. Well thanks so much for sharing, the information you provide on this forum is very helpful

[oniman217]

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by oniman217

[oniman217]

On 10/9/2021 at 11:43 AM, johnson4 said:

New shaker

not sure if this adds anything valuable to you guys but heres another thing I found. Mine has SLITS instead of holes.