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DTF conversion for P700 and P900


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4 hours ago, chaudhryis said:

Hi all, 

Did anyone had success converting the Epson P700 or P900 to DTF.

Rip software / Ink system / refillable carts etc.

 

No, those things don’t exist yet for the new release printers. Usually takes 1-2 years+ after release. 

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  • 5 months later...
39 minutes ago, anum11 said:

Why is it beta i wonder if it is working as intended. Also p900 would be really nice.

They are in stock in my country, we have catridges so only missing thing is rip. 

Yea, I was going to import the p900 from EU, to use chip resetter. Just waiting on a rip too. I don’t really care for the p700, if it’s anything like the p600. 

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  • 1 month later...
3 hours ago, Hangry Muscle said:

What's wrong with the p700? 

I used the P600 for about 5 years for DTG purposes. I ran 4 of them most of that time. The problems I encountered are with the ink manifold. It's absolutely crap for white ink. Springs, microscopic holes, rubber valves, all kinds of crap. The reason, They call the p600 " pressurized" ink system. When in reality its not, it's rather like a diaphragm. It gets gunked up with white ink in as little as 24 hours of sitting. White ink settles- period. If you have normal paths for the ink, this hardly matters unless it's severe which takes months/years of use. they use Ti02 for the white pigment, which is heavier than the carrier. As time passes, small amounts of this Ti02 will slowly drop due to gravity out of the suspension. The longer it sits, the more it does it. It coagulates. Lighter ink will flow around it, kind of like cholesterol in the human body. Eventually, a "chunk" can break off and hit the dampers or head. If you know anything about engines, imagine a Weedeater Carb, or 2 cycle engine carburetor. Even those old briggs push mowers. They use diaphragm pumps to feed the carb instead of a bowl ( needle/float). Thicker fluids, smaller holes, always gunking up- always finding them on the side of the road when a $2 part will fix it. 

 

Now on to the p600. The manifold doesn't function well with this thicker ink, then add the ink settling. I would print 20-40 shirts a day per printer, every single day. just sitting for 24 hours would require me at least an hour a day to get my inks good again. I found out, If I flush the manifold and ink lines at least once every 3 months, this didn't happen. Basically, It worked fine if you manually flushed it every 2-3 months. If you didn't, You had one hell of a time keeping it going without wasting a ton of ink- let alone the " soft clogs" caused by this phenomenon requiring a head clean every 5-8 prints. 

 

The p800 I used right beside these ( it was a harder conversion for DTG and I did it all myself, unlike the kits for the p600's) didn't experience this- ever. It could sit for 2 days and print fine. It could sit for 6 months. As long as I shook the carts and did a heavy ink charge to get the separated ink out of the lines ( which is simple and literally requires one heavy cleaning). Still working. It's been over a year and the p800 has been rather dormant with white ink installed, the same white ink the P600's failed to work with after sitting for 2 days, except the p800 has gone over 30 days without a single print- works perfect. 

 

Actually, as we speak, I have a P800 that has been sitting unattended for 4 weeks with DTF inks in it, without a single issue. 

 

The reason- the thing doesn't have a crappy manifold. It literally has a "straight path" ink system and is actually pressurized at the cartridges, instead of within the manifold. If you take both manifolds apart ( one p600, one p800) you will understand. If you take one each apart after letting them sit for 2-3 days with white ink in them, you'll understand more. 

 

 

So If the P700 is anything like the P600, No thanks. The p800's have just worked- Not one single failure- letting them sit for months unused- expecting it to never work- without an issue. 

 

I actually had about 8 new P800's here when DTF took off, because I was getting rid of my P600's and changing them to p800's. Fortunately for me, I never did. I sold 7 of them and hanging on to the others until I find a trustworthy buyer, because they just work. One p800 I'm using now, Not one single issue. At all. It's roll printed thousands of 12x12 prints, not a single part changed without a single issue. 

 

The main reason I want a P900- I'm bored with how well the P800 works. I want something I can show others how it works, as well as secure newer technology. One day the P800 will die.  Sometimes I want a challenge and like to switch things up. I know this sounds stupid, but I love working on things- so in essence we run a business just so I CAN work on printers. Lol. 

Edited by johnson4
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1 hour ago, xmumicro said:

How is the speed of p800

I get 20 sq ft an hour out of it with CMYK+W and 40 sq ft an hour out of it just black or white. I have two setups side by side so I can do 40/80 sq ft an hour as needed with the mini shakers. Not bad for a total investment roughly $2,000. I already had the RIP software, heat presses, all that crap. One of the mini shakers needs work, I just haven't had the time to do it yet. I bought it discounted " as-is". It does work, Just not to my " expectations" yet. both shakers have extensive " add ons" or " modifications" though. But It's nice to just let it do it's thing for 2-3 hours at a time before refilling the powder. 

 

The P400/600/xp15000 will yield about the same. 17-18 sq ft an hour cmykw and 35ish Black or white. The 1430/l1800 ( any of the low end 90 nozzles per channel X 6 channel models) will cut that in half easily, or roughly 5-8 sq ft an hour cmykw and 10-15 black or white. 

 

Good luck!

 

 

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When I say sq ft an hour, That means for a 12x12 print. I know the film is 13" but I leave .5 inches on both sides. Times aren't exact, but generally what I get. Most of my designs are smaller, so I generally get more prints per hour.

 

Rip software has a HUGE affect on your print speeds. Acro and cadlink took over 8 minutes a sq ft on the p800. Cadlink on 1440x1440 took 16 minutes, which is nuts and the slowest of the three. Cadlink was much faster on my P400 setup, so who knows, just my experience.  Ekprint gets the job done in around 3 minutes for CMYKW prints but doesn't have " perfect" built in color management. Pick your poison on the RIP programs basically. 

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On 12/13/2021 at 8:29 PM, johnson4 said:

I used the P600 for about 5 years for DTG purposes. I ran 4 of them most of that time. The problems I encountered are with the ink manifold. It's absolutely crap for white ink. Springs, microscopic holes, rubber valves, all kinds of crap. The reason, They call the p600 " pressurized" ink system. When in reality its not, it's rather like a diaphragm. It gets gunked up with white ink in as little as 24 hours of sitting. White ink settles- period. If you have normal paths for the ink, this hardly matters unless it's severe which takes months/years of use. they use Ti02 for the white pigment, which is heavier than the carrier. As time passes, small amounts of this Ti02 will slowly drop due to gravity out of the suspension. The longer it sits, the more it does it. It coagulates. Lighter ink will flow around it, kind of like cholesterol in the human body. Eventually, a "chunk" can break off and hit the dampers or head. If you know anything about engines, imagine a Weedeater Carb, or 2 cycle engine carburetor. Even those old briggs push mowers. They use diaphragm pumps to feed the carb instead of a bowl ( needle/float). Thicker fluids, smaller holes, always gunking up- always finding them on the side of the road when a $2 part will fix it. 

 

Now on to the p600. The manifold doesn't function well with this thicker ink, then add the ink settling. I would print 20-40 shirts a day per printer, every single day. just sitting for 24 hours would require me at least an hour a day to get my inks good again. I found out, If I flush the manifold and ink lines at least once every 3 months, this didn't happen. Basically, It worked fine if you manually flushed it every 2-3 months. If you didn't, You had one hell of a time keeping it going without wasting a ton of ink- let alone the " soft clogs" caused by this phenomenon requiring a head clean every 5-8 prints. 

 

The p800 I used right beside these ( it was a harder conversion for DTG and I did it all myself, unlike the kits for the p600's) didn't experience this- ever. It could sit for 2 days and print fine. It could sit for 6 months. As long as I shook the carts and did a heavy ink charge to get the separated ink out of the lines ( which is simple and literally requires one heavy cleaning). Still working. It's been over a year and the p800 has been rather dormant with white ink installed, the same white ink the P600's failed to work with after sitting for 2 days, except the p800 has gone over 30 days without a single print- works perfect. 

 

Actually, as we speak, I have a P800 that has been sitting unattended for 4 weeks with DTF inks in it, without a single issue. 

 

The reason- the thing doesn't have a crappy manifold. It literally has a "straight path" ink system and is actually pressurized at the cartridges, instead of within the manifold. If you take both manifolds apart ( one p600, one p800) you will understand. If you take one each apart after letting them sit for 2-3 days with white ink in them, you'll understand more. 

 

 

So If the P700 is anything like the P600, No thanks. The p800's have just worked- Not one single failure- letting them sit for months unused- expecting it to never work- without an issue. 

 

I actually had about 8 new P800's here when DTF took off, because I was getting rid of my P600's and changing them to p800's. Fortunately for me, I never did. I sold 7 of them and hanging on to the others until I find a trustworthy buyer, because they just work. One p800 I'm using now, Not one single issue. At all. It's roll printed thousands of 12x12 prints, not a single part changed without a single issue. 

 

The main reason I want a P900- I'm bored with how well the P800 works. I want something I can show others how it works, as well as secure newer technology. One day the P800 will die.  Sometimes I want a challenge and like to switch things up. I know this sounds stupid, but I love working on things- so in essence we run a business just so I CAN work on printers. Lol. 

How did you go about flushing everything? I think I am starting to run into this issue.

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On the P600, you remove the damper assy. It'll leak out, so move the carriage all the way to the left with the printhead in it. Get a bowl or something to catch the ink. Loosen the screws holding the hose to the damper ASSY. It WILL LEAK/DRIP for a moment. Paper towels are your friend. Once that stops, Use a syringe and hose to fit on the nipple at the ink bay. Flush each line. It took me 100ML per CMYK and 400 ML per white. I just used water after the first few times because that's alot. Once all the ink was flushed, I would then flush the water out with cleaner. Reassemble, and do 1-2 ink charges 10-15 minutes apart. Sometimes I'd do another 1-2 regular head cleans. That's it. 

 

actually Flushes the lines without pushing that crap through the dampers or head. Using carts only, it's nearly impossible to clean the lines entirely. I would expect a capping station replacement in the near future when you are done if you actually just use the carts only. Thats alot of stress all at once.  Using a syringe, alternating the pressure will cause more deposits to be picked up. You'll see what I'm talking about if you do it. Once its clear coming out, press hard/soft a few times over and over and you'll see streams of white pick up and come out.  

 

Then I just let it sit or load my inks like normal. If you let it sit, make sure you use something designed for that, or with VG in it so it doesn't evaporate and keeps it all lubed up. 

 

That's what I came up with and have done anyway. It works well for me. good luck!

Edited by johnson4
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello, johnson4 I have seen that you are going to buy the p900 ... I just bought it on Amazon, and I would like to know if you still have the same idea of buying it to transform it into Dtf, and if it works only with the acrorip 11


 Thanks

 I am looking forward to your response

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4 hours ago, Juraviza said:

Hello, johnson4 I have seen that you are going to buy the p900 ... I just bought it on Amazon, and I would like to know if you still have the same idea of buying it to transform it into Dtf, and if it works only with the acrorip 11


 Thanks

 I am looking forward to your response

Only the European version is said to accept reset chips for the ink and waste tank. 
 

im actually likely going to go with the p5000, it’s hardly anymore and will print as fast as the 24” commercial printers. 

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I have bought the European version, I live in Spain, I change it for the P800?  or do I stick with the P900?  I am doubting ... I am still very green ... I come from an L1800 as my first Dtf machine ...

 

THANKS YOU...

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7 hours ago, Juraviza said:

I have bought the European version, I live in Spain, I change it for the P800?  or do I stick with the P900?  I am doubting ... I am still very green ... I come from an L1800 as my first Dtf machine ...

 

THANKS YOU...

The p900 is new, so your not going to get a lot of support on it. Also, EKprint has a beta version for it, and acro 11 is said to support it- whenever that comes out. 
 

I would expect bugs and issues, you would be one of the first to convert and use it. 
 

as for the p800, it’s well tested, well documented and works very well, as well it’s Chipless. 
 

I wanted to go the p900 Route, but I’m going to go the p5000 Route if I’m doing cartridge resets. It has higher spec’d printhead so it’s 360 nozzles X10, like the 24” dual printhead printers speed, except it will print higher quality because the printhead is much higher quality than those in the 24” printers. For me, I don’t need 24” width, so 17” width printer for $1,800 VS $12,000 for a Chinese printer is a no brainer for me, with the amount of issues I’ve seen with these 24” printers vs the reliability of an Epson desktop. 
 

Cadlink now supports it, so I’m not stuck with acro rip 10.X to use it. ( which acro doesn’t officially support it anyway). 
 

so, for the price, I’d go with the p800 if you can, or for a few hundred more to with a printer that’s going to print twice as fast ( the p5000). 

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27 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

The p900 is new, so your not going to get a lot of support on it. Also, EKprint has a beta version for it, and acro 11 is said to support it- whenever that comes out. 
 

I would expect bugs and issues, you would be one of the first to convert and use it. 
 

as for the p800, it’s well tested, well documented and works very well, as well it’s Chipless. 
 

I wanted to go the p900 Route, but I’m going to go the p5000 Route if I’m doing cartridge resets. It has higher spec’d printhead so it’s 360 nozzles X10, like the 24” dual printhead printers speed, except it will print higher quality because the printhead is much higher quality than those in the 24” printers. For me, I don’t need 24” width, so 17” width printer for $1,800 VS $12,000 for a Chinese printer is a no brainer for me, with the amount of issues I’ve seen with these 24” printers vs the reliability of an Epson desktop. 
 

Cadlink now supports it, so I’m not stuck with acro rip 10.X to use it. ( which acro doesn’t officially support it anyway). 
 

so, for the price, I’d go with the p800 if you can, or for a few hundred more to with a printer that’s going to print twice as fast ( the p5000). 

if you buy 4900 or p5000, get a kothari. You will print 4 times faster.

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1 hour ago, anum11 said:

if you buy 4900 or p5000, get a kothari. You will print 4 times faster.

How would kothari print faster running the same 1440x1440 resolution? 
 

I’ll look into it, but It is very expensive software. 

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22 hours ago, johnson4 said:

How would kothari print faster running the same 1440x1440 resolution? 
 

I’ll look into it, but It is very expensive software. 

You can print at lower resolutions wihtout losing quality. if you have 360 nozzle 10 channel printhead, it should print enough ink at 720*720 or maybe lower resolutions. I tested it with p600 it prints same.

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10 hours ago, anum11 said:

You can print at lower resolutions wihtout losing quality. if you have 360 nozzle 10 channel printhead, it should print enough ink at 720*720 or maybe lower resolutions. I tested it with p600 it prints same.

I assumed printing at 1440x1440 would naturally be twice as fast, given the 360 nozzles instead of 180, yielding half the head pass for the same vertical movement. 

 

I don’t see how that would make it work better at lower resolutions though.
 

1440 dots per square inch is 1440 dots per square inch, irrigardless if the printer had 80 or 360 nozzles per channel.
 

All that means to me is the more nozzles per channel, the less head passes it needs per inch and vise versa. 

 

for example: 360 nozzles per channel =4 head passes per inch. 180 nozzles per channel = 8 head passes per inch, for the same resolution. 
 

This is how I come up with the “twice as fast” statement. Lowering the resolution and comparing both printers, they would still be equal, one being twice as fast, irregardless of the resolution as long as both were set to print at the same resolution. 
 

while this could be done with any of the RIP softwares, I just don’t like the quality or the look of lower resolution prints, I won’t sell or use them. I’ve even tried over saturating to compensate for the less DPI, but it’s still not what I want. 
 

 

of course, that is unless I’m mistaken. 

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It is about ink yield. When you go for example on L1800 at 1440*720 its white coverage is bad. Dx5 printheads are decent at 1440*720 white coverage. So with 6 white channel each 360 nozzle, it would go much lower resolutions.

Another thing is, i printed with p600 dtg and kothari at 720*720, it prints with whole head 3 passes. it is not printing like normal 720*720. So prints faster and with same quality if your printhead is perfect. However it was a double CMYK printer because ink yield was not enough. But recently i discovered that i can change pass count too so that is not a worry anymore.

In addition, if your print have lines, you can adjust them in settings, if your printhead started get permanent clogs(which starts at outer ends) you can cancel those nozzles and print a little slower. There are a lot of settings you can use.

 

Edited by anum11
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  • 5 weeks later...
On 1/6/2022 at 3:36 PM, johnson4 said:

Cadlink now supports it, so I’m not stuck with acro rip 10.X to use it. ( which acro doesn’t officially support it anyway). 

I have asked Cadlink today and they told me, that there is no support for P900 DTF yet, you have tried it ?

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