Wrinkly finish

[jac8]

Hello!

The past 3 mos, I've been experimenting on every possible consumable option, RIP settings even cure time and temp after so many fails with curing quality and print durability.

One thing I have identified is that the kind of powder contributes to durability after I switched from PA to now TPU. I would say that while the switch hasn't totally eliminated the durability issue completely, TPU has definitely produced a lot more favorable results.

End result is that I have mastered a 99% consistent quality curing for my designs / films. The melted powder was evenly distributed without any missed out part, sticky, glossy and with the proper amount. The only issue that remains is the occasional occurrence of some prints with wrinkled parts that make these parts more prone to breakage when scratching or stretching.

Not sure if it is just coincidence but I have a hunch that the wrinkling maybe caused by one or even all of these issues:

1. Subpar PET film consumable (I switch around 3 types of PET films. Among the three, maybe just coincidence but I tend to get the wrinkly finish whenever I use the subpar one).
   • This subpar PET film consumable has patterns/ line design on its film. Not sure but I think it is from China. It also attracts moisture alot which causes excess powder to remain even after massive flicking and shaking.
2. 720 setting on the Acrorip 9.03 (80/100 ink levels). I have played around using 720 and 1440 but haven't had a solid evidence to connect this to the durability / wrinkling issues.
3. Wrong printing (either pressure, temp <I use 329F> or press time <1st press 15 sec, 2nd press 5 sec>)

Anyone who has figured out the main culprit behind the wrinkling of some parts?

Edited March 26, 2021 by jac8

[johnson4]

That film with lines in it that make powder stick to it, I’ve encountered too. Apparently it just happens sometimes, even in a good roll. I doubt a ton of manufacturers exist( or did when those rolls were made) so it’s probably all from around the same manufacturer. you must cut off/throw away that film, it just makes a mess. Andy said if you buy a roll from him and that happens, he’ll take care of it. 
 

however, the film like that didn’t cause wrinkling for me. What caused wrinkling for me was the amount of powder on the film, how it’s cured, and the pressure and if it’s pressed twice. 
 

if it is cured too hot, that happened. If I applied the powder after the ink had dried  a little to much that happened.  
 

I personally think the main culprit is the curing method, and the pressing method. I cure at 385 for about 3 minutes from the bottom, so the ink dries before the powder melts. Then I heavy press, then press again with a cover sheet once the pet is removed. 
 

when I say heavy, I mean I have four auto open heat presses, and I set it at high as it will go without popping back up. I’ll have buff arms one of these days over it..... lol. 
 

however, I think that’s the main issue with it, I really want that powder the melt into the fabric, while at the same time pressing the ink layer firmly into that melted plastic. Even though I use hot peel, I peel cold to prevent any detachment. It’s also possible your press offers uneven pressure, causing the issue. With transfers, you really need a good quality press. 
 

I always print 1440x1440, with 75 ink settings on EKprint, don’t know how that correlates to acro. I haven’t had an issue yet with the last 250 transfers or so. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by johnson4

[jac8]

Hello!

I'll take note of your advise to do away with the film with patterns / lines lol.

32 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

however, the film like that didn’t cause wrinkling for me. What caused wrinkling for me was the amount of powder on the film, how it’s cured, and the pressure and if it’s pressed twice. 
 

if it is cured too hot, that happened. If I applied the powder after the ink had dried  a little to much that happened.  
 

I personally think the main culprit is the curing method, and the pressing method. I cure at 385 for about 3 minutes from the bottom, so the ink dries before the powder melts. Then I heavy press, then press again with a cover sheet once the pet is removed. 
 

For this may I know what amount of powder would you consider to be causing the wrinkling for you? Too much powder or too less? For me I'm sure to say that after curing I can see how every part of the design is fully covered with evenly melted adhesive without that 'bubbly' parts that don't have much melted adhesive on them. Or is it a case of too much adhesive?

-

For my curing process, I use a brand new eurobrand Max armour heat press. After the wet film finishes printing from the L1800 I wait for around 9-12 minutes for the ink to dry a bit before curing as I am in a very humid country. For the temp, I use 392F for 120 - 180 sec as per the advise of many dtf people I know including my local (Philippines) supplier.

For the pressure during printing, I press with just the right amount of heaviness as per my supplier's advise. Not to heavy enough that it takes effort to lift the plate up after pressing. My press temp is 329F at 15 sec, second press at 5 sec with a teflon sheet over the film-less/exposed printed design.

42 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

when I say heavy, I mean I have four auto open heat presses, and I set it at high as it will go without popping back up. I’ll have buff arms one of these days over it..... lol. 

My press doesn't have the auto pop up function as it is mostly manual. Although I'd say that for a manual press it is pretty premium quality, smooth and very even as it is also brand new. 

Curious how heavy you'd suggest I adjust the heat press plate?

45 minutes ago, johnson4 said:

however, I think that’s the main issue with it, I really want that powder the melt into the fabric, while at the same time pressing the ink layer firmly into that melted plastic. Even though I use hot peel, I peel cold to prevent any detachment. It’s also possible your press offers uneven pressure, causing the issue. With transfers, you really need a good quality press. 

So I'm assuming based on your observation, even though curing could be a factor, it might be that I'm not pressing heavily enough for both the adhesive to melt into fabric and for the adhesive to stick on the ink enough? 

For the peel, I have cold peel and same with you I wait till it is cold enough for clean and easy peeling.

TIA as always!!

[johnson4]

22 minutes ago, jac8 said:

Hello!

I'll take note of your advise to do away with the film with patterns / lines lol.

For this may I know what amount of powder would you consider to be causing the wrinkling for you? Too much powder or too less? For me I'm sure to say that after curing I can see how every part of the design is fully covered with evenly melted adhesive without that 'bubbly' parts that don't have much melted adhesive on them. Or is it a case of too much adhesive?

-

For my curing process, I use a brand new eurobrand Max armour heat press. After the wet film finishes printing from the L1800 I wait for around 9-12 minutes for the ink to dry a bit before curing as I am in a very humid country. For the temp, I use 392F for 120 - 180 sec as per the advise of many dtf people I know including my local (Philippines) supplier.

For the pressure during printing, I press with just the right amount of heaviness as per my supplier's advise. Not to heavy enough that it takes effort to lift the plate up after pressing. My press temp is 329F at 15 sec, second press at 5 sec with a teflon sheet over the film-less/exposed printed design.

My press doesn't have the auto pop up function as it is mostly manual. Although I'd say that for a manual press it is pretty premium quality, smooth and very even as it is also brand new. 

Curious how heavy you'd suggest I adjust the heat press plate?

So I'm assuming based on your observation, even though curing could be a factor, it might be that I'm not pressing heavily enough for both the adhesive to melt into fabric and for the adhesive to stick on the ink enough? 

For the peel, I have cold peel and same with you I wait till it is cold enough for clean and easy peeling.

TIA as always!!

It sounds good all around, the only thing I would try is heavy pressure. If your easily popping up a manual press, it’s not heavy enough. 
 

my presses vary, but they are all off branded, so it’s not like they can come close to the pressure a manual press can endure. 
 

the only reason that I can think of for the ink to wrinkle, would be it lifting up from the powder, or fabric. So if everything else is fine, I’d personally give a heavier pressure a try, and press a 2nd time after peel.

Pressure is very “ subjective”, since there isn’t a scale on the heat presses. I would do 3 identical designs, press one at your normal pressure, one slightly more, and one as much pressure as you can physically provide. Wash test all three, and see if there is a difference, that will take away that from the equation, or provide you with an answer.  
 

if your in a humid area, do you pre-press your garments? Moisture in the garment can cause issues too. 

[jac8]

14 hours ago, johnson4 said:

the only reason that I can think of for the ink to wrinkle, would be it lifting up from the powder, or fabric. So if everything else is fine, I’d personally give a heavier pressure a try, and press a 2nd time after peel.

Pressure is very “ subjective”, since there isn’t a scale on the heat presses. I would do 3 identical designs, press one at your normal pressure, one slightly more, and one as much pressure as you can physically provide. Wash test all three, and see if there is a difference, that will take away that from the equation, or provide you with an answer.  

This is a very valid factor to experiment on. I have experimented on so many things but for pressure I didn't give it that much time yet. I will try and let you know.

14 hours ago, johnson4 said:

if your in a humid area, do you pre-press your garments? Moisture in the garment can cause issues too. 

Probably 9 times out of 10 I do pre-press for around 3-5 secs.

[jac8]

UPDATE:

I tried the following values and combinations on both a 100% cotton shirt, cotton blend shirt and a cotton fleece hoodie, all using the better PET FILM (without the pattern line design type one) and cured using my usual, tested curing settings (time and temp):

Light press:

1. 1440 (20/30 ink level)
2. 1440 (20/90)
3. 1440 (70/90)

Heavy press:

1. 1440 (20/30)
2. 1440 (20/90)
3. 1440 (70/90)

First off, all the combinations printed w/ both light and heavy presses on both shirt and hoodie came out better, more durable and stretchable compared to the inferior PET film with line pattern design.

Here are the output from best to worst (most durable / stretchable / solid color / solid 'opacity)

1. Heavy press 1440 (70/90)
   • For the best output (Heavy press 1440 (70/90) everything came out around 95% ideal for my standards. Perfect color, perfect thickness, durability that allows for heavy stretching and scratching
2. Heavy press 1440 (20/90) & 1440 (20/30)
   • The second output (20/90 and 20/30) actually have a nearly similar durability and stretchability with the first one, and is just very very slightly less durable because of how thin the ink is. What makes it worse is the color. Magenta and cyan came out as baby pink and powder blue
3. Light press 1440 (70/90)
   • Slightly similar finish with 2 BUT is again slightly less durable
4. Light press 1440 (20/90) & 1440 (20/30)
   • With a very inaccurate, light color and is less durable because of how thin the print is. Using this setting, one design printed on a cotton blend fabric got damaged / cracks after heavy stretching.

The light press settings came out obviously inferior to the heavy presses. BUT if compared to my older lightly pressed design using the cheaper PET film with line pattern design, it still significantly has better durability and stretchability, although it still doesn't pass my expected quality standards.

In conclusion:

• Heavy pressing appears to improve durability and stretchability (as correctly suggested by @johnson4)
• Having 1440 setting helps the ink print hold enough to avoid small holes and mini cracks to appear after heavy stretching
• Fabric / material appear to have minimal to no effect when it comes to durability of the print.
• Still unproven, but based on my experiment, using PET film with a better quality, and having avoided the inferior PET film with the line pattern design, resulted to better durability / stretchability of the print across the board when compared to my previous prints using the inferior PET film consumable.

Will update should something new come up when I print new designs soon.

 

[johnson4]

5 hours ago, jac8 said:

UPDATE:

I tried the following values and combinations on both a 100% cotton shirt, cotton blend shirt and a cotton fleece hoodie, all using the better PET FILM (without the pattern line design type one) and cured using my usual, tested curing settings (time and temp):

Light press:

1. 1440 (20/30 ink level)
2. 1440 (20/90)
3. 1440 (70/90)

Heavy press:

1. 1440 (20/30)
2. 1440 (20/90)
3. 1440 (70/90)

First off, all the combinations printed w/ both light and heavy presses on both shirt and hoodie came out better, more durable and stretchable compared to the inferior PET film with line pattern design.

Here are the output from best to worst (most durable / stretchable / solid color / solid 'opacity)

1. Heavy press 1440 (70/90)
   • For the best output (Heavy press 1440 (70/90) everything came out around 95% ideal for my standards. Perfect color, perfect thickness, durability that allows for heavy stretching and scratching
2. Heavy press 1440 (20/90) & 1440 (20/30)
   • The second output (20/90 and 20/30) actually have a nearly similar durability and stretchability with the first one, and is just very very slightly less durable because of how thin the ink is. What makes it worse is the color. Magenta and cyan came out as baby pink and powder blue
3. Light press 1440 (70/90)
   • Slightly similar finish with 2 BUT is again slightly less durable
4. Light press 1440 (20/90) & 1440 (20/30)
   • With a very inaccurate, light color and is less durable because of how thin the print is. Using this setting, one design printed on a cotton blend fabric got damaged / cracks after heavy stretching.

The light press settings came out obviously inferior to the heavy presses. BUT if compared to my older lightly pressed design using the cheaper PET film with line pattern design, it still significantly has better durability and stretchability, although it still doesn't pass my expected quality standards.

In conclusion:

• Heavy pressing appears to improve durability and stretchability (as correctly suggested by @johnson4)
• Having 1440 setting helps the ink print hold enough to avoid small holes and mini cracks to appear after heavy stretching
• Fabric / material appear to have minimal to no effect when it comes to durability of the print.
• Still unproven, but based on my experiment, using PET film with a better quality, and having avoided the inferior PET film with the line pattern design, resulted to better durability / stretchability of the print across the board when compared to my previous prints using the inferior PET film consumable.

Will update should something new come up when I print new designs soon.

 

Very nice, your “best” results are basically my same settings. I’m glad you are making progress with it. 

[Tiago Vieira]

I'm having problems with the white paint, after the first wash, it starts to wrinkle, as if slowly peeling off. I tried the settings that you recommended.
I find myself without alternatives, maybe my paint or powder is bad.

[johnson4]

24 minutes ago, Tiago Vieira said:

I'm having problems with the white paint, after the first wash, it starts to wrinkle, as if slowly peeling off. I tried the settings that you recommended.
I find myself without alternatives, maybe my paint or powder is bad.

This is with double pressing with heavy pressure( like almost can’t close the press?). 

[Tiago Vieira]

The question of strength could be a problem ... I don't know! Maybe a little relative.
I am afraid of damaging the press, I have been lifting weights for over 10 years at the gym. But I will try to press harder. Thanks for answering.

[Tiago Vieira]

After pressing the pattern, do I have to wait some time before washing?

[johnson4]

3 hours ago, Tiago Vieira said:

After pressing the pattern, do I have to wait some time before washing?

I never have, I mean it should cool all the way- but that should happen within seconds once removed from the press. 

[Tiago Vieira]

I recently changed from white ink to one I purchased on aliexpress. With the following composition:
The ingredients included are 2,2'-oxidiethanol ， 2-Butoxyethanol ， Propane-1,2-diol ， Deionized water ， and pigment.

Does the ink on https://dtfsuperstore.com have a composition?

I believe that the white color is much better now, in addition to the fact that I increased the pressure even more, as the friend PRO OpenDTG'er recommended.

I believe that the result is now satisfactory after washing.

Thank you for the informations

[Dtfnoob]

hi.guys..ive been playing around with the settings i always have issues with crack. i watched some videos. it should be pretty strechy right? for me even the slightest stretch will crack the paint specially on white colors i use 1440x1440 60/200. I do heavy pressure 160 with 20 secs. Can you help me pls

[johnson4]

17 minutes ago, Dtfnoob said:

hi.guys..ive been playing around with the settings i always have issues with crack. i watched some videos. it should be pretty strechy right? for me even the slightest stretch will crack the paint specially on white colors i use 1440x1440 60/200. I do heavy pressure 160 with 20 secs. Can you help me pls

Try a different adhesive powder. 

[Dtfnoob]

Im not aware of any brand. Is it possible for you to give me an example. I am using the powder that was provided where i bought the printer. It has a blue bottle container

[johnson4]

16 hours ago, Dtfnoob said:

Im not aware of any brand. Is it possible for you to give me an example. I am using the powder that was provided where i bought the printer. It has a blue bottle container

It's a long road- Figuring it all out. I don't know of any brands either. I test various suppliers until I find what I like and stick with that and hope it stays the same. 

Cracking after washing usually is directly related to the powder or ink, so I would start there. 

 

What brand is your machine?

[Dtfnoob]

22 hours ago, johnson4 said:

It's a long road- Figuring it all out. I don't know of any brands either. I test various suppliers until I find what I like and stick with that and hope it stays the same. 

Cracking after washing usually is directly related to the powder or ink, so I would start there. 

 

What brand is your machine?

Hi i think it is really the powder. After i changed the powder it is now durable and doest crack when it is stretch. Thanks for all the help