DTG vs DTF

[Lasse]

8 hours ago, Lasse said:

"If you don’t mind me asking, what is that your using to apply the powder?"

That´s just 16" of a rain gutter. I´ll do some photos for you when I´m at the printshop later today..:)

This is how set up my adhesive powder station johnsson4

[johnson4]

5 hours ago, Lasse said:

This is how set up my adhesive powder station johnsson4

This might sounds stupid, is that round gutter? 
 

thanks, I never thought of using something rounded like that. 

[johnson4]

I made this out of steel, If I need to ground it to prevent static I’ll sand it down inside like yours. We’ll see how it works! 

Edited January 23, 2021 by johnson4

[Lasse]

Wow, that looks nice.

About static electricity, it mostly accures when I screenprint tranfers, (when a rubber squegie runs over the mech and the print lands on plastic sheets, it builds up static electricity).

[johnson4]

20 minutes ago, Lasse said:

Wow, that looks nice.

About static electricity, it mostly accures when I screenprint tranfers, (when a rubber squegie runs over the mech and the print lands on plastic sheets, it builds up static electricity).

Yea, I haven’t noticed any issues with it yet with static. I think rev 2 will be a bit taller, and a bit less wide, I was making it to fit the 13” and 17” printer sizes, just in case I wanted to go with a p800 down the road. 
 

I took a 3”x4” cart and attached a printer, shaker, the powder thing you see, roller and a hot plate to make an auto dtf machine. So far it’s working well,  just gotta fine tune things. My main issues are the last transfers printed, so I’m going to add a following blank sheet length just like in the beginning. That and some way to easily recollect the powder, OR some way to prevent the film from lifting up from the bottom of that pan, so the powder stays in the roll of the film indefinitely. Still deciding on that. 

 

It has a vent, to suck fumes out, which are directed to an output port, that also doubles as a “ pre-heater” to slightly remove moisture from the ink from the printed film before hitting the powder. 
 

just for reference, 350-375 degrees easily cured the ink as it printed. 

[Chetan B]

I did try Dtf using Dtg Ink. It did work, washability was good but wasn't actually stretchable as seen as in the videos.

I did see a post in DTF Kingdom that Dtf ink for Dtg as well, just curious to know if it really works. 

If the quality was good, probably Dtf inks for dtg would be cheaper and maintenance would be much easier.

Can anyone who has tried this or using a Flatbed Dtf please try this and share their views so it'd help most of the users here.


Thanks

[johnson4]

5 hours ago, Chetan B said:

I did try Dtf using Dtg Ink. It did work, washability was good but wasn't actually stretchable as seen as in the videos.

I did see a post in DTF Kingdom that Dtf ink for Dtg as well, just curious to know if it really works. 

If the quality was good, probably Dtf inks for dtg would be cheaper and maintenance would be much easier.

Can anyone who has tried this or using a Flatbed Dtf please try this and share their views so it'd help most of the users here.


Thanks

I tried DTF ink for dtg, it didn’t work for me. Just soaked right into the pre treated shirt. 

[Muzz]

Hello

 

[Muzz]

New to Forum, we Have Kornit Avalanches, tried DTF using the kornit , printed well, but after washing scratches off? any suggestions?

 

[anum11]

It is not compitable.

[Moses]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:19 PM, Rick Macali said:

I'm not trying to sell anything here
I've been around the industry 30 years and I feel I know my stuff pretty well

Instead of insulting me, lets discuss with what you disagree with - as you mentioned, these are my opinions
As a matter of fact, I suggested people entering the market start with transfers - not buy equipmentj

Sorry if I offended you, not my intention

I agree  with you brother. You are right amd i do love DTF. Some one can not use properly DTF that’s why they can complain. My friends got Brother GTX that for 2-3 years they spend a lot money for repairing. Like printer whole amount. He told me that it is not worth DTG 

[johnson4]

4 hours ago, Moses said:

I agree  with you brother. You are right amd i do love DTF. Some one can not use properly DTF that’s why they can complain. My friends got Brother GTX that for 2-3 years they spend a lot money for repairing. Like printer whole amount. He told me that it is not worth DTG 

DTG is nice, just don’t pay OEM prices and learn how to repair it yourself- same with any of this stuff. 

[Paul Minnie]

Good day,

I have read the posts and have a better understanding of the differance between DTG and DTF. I started with started with sublimation and not doing to bad but my business is stuck. I can not print on dark or color shirts as my printer does not have white ink and the sublimation paper for dark shirts is not working ( ink does nit last and the backing washes off)

Therefore I am looking on how to print on dark / colored shirts, bags, denim, etc. I have also looked at DTG UV printers but it seems that the print feel is ridged. I do not print big volumes at this stage, so based on the input from this post I take it that it would be better for me to start with DTF printer???

Any advice, please

[johnson4]

4 hours ago, Paul Minnie said:

Good day,

I have read the posts and have a better understanding of the differance between DTG and DTF. I started with started with sublimation and not doing to bad but my business is stuck. I can not print on dark or color shirts as my printer does not have white ink and the sublimation paper for dark shirts is not working ( ink does nit last and the backing washes off)

Therefore I am looking on how to print on dark / colored shirts, bags, denim, etc. I have also looked at DTG UV printers but it seems that the print feel is ridged. I do not print big volumes at this stage, so based on the input from this post I take it that it would be better for me to start with DTF printer???

Any advice, please

DTF and DTG are the same in terms of maintenance. 
 

the first and foremost rule for new users for BOTH processes:

white ink is nothing like anything else you’ve encountered. It settles, it clogs faster, and cannot sit, you can’t leave it “open” or it will dry out or coagulate. It will clog More often, period. 
 

1. you literally have to shake the ink each day. Not every other day, not sometimes. Daily. 
 

2. you must be very specific and thorough with your cleaning. Wiper, capping station top, wet cap etc. 

3. You can’t ever let the printer sit when white ink is put into it. If it’s something like an Epson p400/ dx5, you could easily clean it with cleaning cartridges and let it sit however long you want. It doesn’t have an ink system. Any printer that doesn’t have cartridges directly on the head, has an ink system, like the p600/p800. The p800 can sit longer and flush ink out better, unlike the p600, but rule of thumb, don’t let them sit more than 48 hours without printing and 24 hours without shaking the ink and carts. 
 

 

with that out of the way, it really depends on what you are looking for in your business. 
 

DTF has 1-2 ink layers, and a plastic powder adhesive on the back. So when finalized ON the shirt it does have a hand feel, unlike sublimation. It can be minimized though with putting down the least ink possible and learning how to use your powder. 
 

DTG uses 1-2 ink layers, and a pretreatment that must be evenly applied ( in the right amount) on the shirt, dried, then printed and dried again. DTG kn white almost feels like sublimation. Black only feels like screenprinting until washed, then feels like sublimation. Anything with white under it, has a hand feel, which depends on how you cure it. I press mine, which makes for a smooth screen printed feel. 
 

for you, DTF and DTG will have similar costs in materials. if you buy an OEM printer that requires BRANDED ink, you’ll never make money, period.  I will be talking about DIY DTG vs DIY DTF. 
 

DTF ink is much cheaper than DTG ink. Literally, less than half as cheap. DTF inks last nearly twice as long. So overall it ends up being 1/4 the cost of DTG ink overall. 

BUT you need to factor in film and powder costs. If you buy from a supplier, it’s roughly .50 a 12x13 design for film, powder and ink are very minuscule. I pay 0.23-0.33 cents a 12x13 design. Add in ink and powder, I would guesstimate around .10 cents, my printer shows roughly 0.05-0.10 cents in ink each print. So overall, $0.43-$0.70 a 12x13 print roughly for DTF. 
 

DTG is more expensive, using Kodak/dupont ink at the cheapest price of $117 a liter color, or $125/$145 a liter white. My overall average was over $1 per print in ink, if you go OEM, like an Epson F2100 or any other “branded” ink, it’s going to run you $3-$5 a print in ink. Don’t forget pretreatment. I put down roughly $0.60 cents per dark shirt, maybe $0.30 per light( no white ink). 

so overall cost for one 12x13 print roughly: 

DTF: $0.43-$0.70

DTG: $1.60-$2.60 for aftermarket, up to $5-$6 a print for OEM. 
 

I don’t really calculate ink waste, but DTG will be more due to the higher ink cost. The rest is the same. 
 

 

As for washability- both are very comparable. One will crack and fade and peel over time( DTG). And one can wrinkle, peel, and bubble (DTF). If not done properly anyway. Overall if done correctly, they are about the same. 
 

for terms of hand feel and quality, DTG will always be softer, but it depends. without white, it wins, always. With white, it wins, in terms of hand feel on large patches. Now, DTF can feel equally the same if you are printing a broken up design. If you print a large patch, like a giant green circle,  it does feel like a layer of plastic on the shirt. 
 

overall, if done right, both are acceptable. I will break down my opinion on the best hand feel. 
 

1. waterbased screenprinting

2Plastisol screenprinting

3 DTG

4 DTF

5, the worst is any laser/inkjet transfer product. 
 

now for the cheapest to expensive: 

1. Plastisol screenprinting ( for larger runs)

2. Waterbased screenprinting

3. DTF

4. DTG

5 any other transfer as mentioned above. 
 

 

Overall, there isn’t a “best”. DTF is easier, cheaper, but does have a plastic like hand feel on large patches. Still acceptable and many places like Nike or under armor use it for their products. If done right though, you can almost completely remove that plastic feel for white only. White and color printed at the same time will always feel Like a sheet of plastic in large patches. 

DTG is more expensive but offers a softer hand feel and doesn’t feel like plastic, if done right. 
 

 

I prefer DTF for everyday normal stuff, and DTG for my premium stuff. DTG is harder to convert, much harder than DTF. They both have their place. 
 

dont forget, DTG is Limited to flat objects, any variation in thickness required You to lower your platen which sucks to do. 
 

DTF can transfer to just about anything or any shape you can press with heat. 
 

basic cost of getting into dtf: $500-$2000 for entry level.

basic cost of getting into dtg: $1000-$3000 for entry level. 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by johnson4

[Paul Minnie]

Johnson4

Thank you very much for the feedback and information. I think for a start the DTF will work for my requirements. My next step will be corporate gifts and looking at UV printer.

I have to agree, I have found that OEM is very expencive and service not greate. I have been waiting almost 2 weeks for N........ ( will leave the name there) to get back to me but still nothing. The manufacturers in China is faster.

 

Thank you again for theinput.

[johnson4]

4 hours ago, Paul Minnie said:

Johnson4

Thank you very much for the feedback and information. I think for a start the DTF will work for my requirements. My next step will be corporate gifts and looking at UV printer.

I have to agree, I have found that OEM is very expencive and service not greate. I have been waiting almost 2 weeks for N........ ( will leave the name there) to get back to me but still nothing. The manufacturers in China is faster.

 

Thank you again for theinput.

Good luck with that guy, honestly. Over the years I’ve just gotten tired of warning people, used to I would write a book. Lol. 
 

yea, DIY is the way to go if you like making things. 

my harbor freight cart mini shaker works better than the one I bought now, and it will only continue to improve. I’m in the p800/cart less than $1,000 for roll off transfers. The p400 that was on it died of unknown reasons after about 3000-4000 transfers. 

 

i highly recommend not paying full price for a desktop printer, from anyone. Do those yourself. For the price you buy them they are disposable. A Ciss system with white ink never works out long term either, not without a way to shake the white ink effectively and daily. 

If you want “ high and mighty” order an Audley kit from DTGsuperstore or China directly. At least those are worth replacing parts on.

 

 Good luck!

[anum11]

P400 tends to die randomly i could not figure out why. It seems their mainboard is really fraigle, so it is best to keep them in a well climated area.

[johnson4]

2 hours ago, anum11 said:

P400 tends to die randomly i could not figure out why. It seems their mainboard is really fraigle, so it is best to keep them in a well climated area.

I put a fan on my heat sink and it worked fine.  After a few hours of printing without it, it would get hot and reset.