DTF printing question

[Ricardo Carrillo]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:39 PM, johnson4 said:

I do appreciate Andy's honesty about the product though. Most products in this category the manufacturer lies about it and its a " do all magic product". When a issue occurs, it's " your not doing it right".

I as well don't think it would be at all worth it to use it for a DTG replacement, but it could potentially be an easy add-on . 

For things like tags, hats, and other various things, I'm sure it will work great, since the product made it this far. 

I'm willing to run a new/unused P800 with the inkset to see how well it works which is saying quite a bit coming from me. 

Hi! Sorry do you have any idea how to flush all the ink if you want to put the dtf ink? Also what modify you have to do in a p400 or p600?

[Andy - Admin]

11 hours ago, Ricardo Carrillo said:

Hi! Sorry do you have any idea how to flush all the ink if you want to put the dtf ink? Also what modify you have to do in a p400 or p600?

Put in refillable cartridges that have flushing solution,  then on the p600 run ink charges and the p400 just run some head cleans.

 

[Jonmusa]

Do you need a pro rip for dtf with the p600?

[Ricardo Carrillo]

3 hours ago, Andy - Admin said:

Put in refillable cartridges that have flushing solution,  then on the p600 run ink charges and the p400 just run some head cleans.

 

Oh the same with the R3000? Cause that printer have many colors (black matte, grays etc)

[johnson4]

8 hours ago, Ricardo Carrillo said:

Oh the same with the R3000? Cause that printer have many colors (black matte, grays etc)

Yes, You are flushing out the ink system, To put in new ink.You use a RIP software to use the printer. You assign the new colors in the printer ( CMYK+WWWW) via the RIP. The cartridges, and printer still think it's OEM.

[johnson4]

10 hours ago, Jonmusa said:

Do you need a pro rip for dtf with the p600?

Yes, You need a RIP program. EKprint is $350, Acrorip is like $15 on ebay. Kothari is $1,000. Other programs are available, I do not recommend acrorip if you plan to take it seriously. Basically, You get what you put into it. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by johnson4

[Gualalasmooth]

Is there a hot peal transfer paper? Because I see Supacolor transfers are hot peal ,are they the same as DTF?

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Gualalasmooth said:

Is there a hot peal transfer paper? Because I see Supacolor transfers are hot peal ,are they the same as DTF?

I have no knowledge on the product. You could always buy it and try it. 

However, I know DTF and plastisol transfers are two different things. Unless it's a product directly marketed for printing with an inkjet printer and specifies the ink needed to work with it, I would assume it's screenprinted onto the transfer. If so, It won't have the coating needed for DTF.

Either way, if it was the same, how would that benefit over what is currently offered?

[Andy - Admin]

3 hours ago, Gualalasmooth said:

Is there a hot peal transfer paper? Because I see Supacolor transfers are hot peal ,are they the same as DTF?

I've only used cold peel. 

[Ricardo Carrillo]

On 10/19/2020 at 10:28 PM, johnson4 said:

Yes, You are flushing out the ink system, To put in new ink.You use a RIP software to use the printer. You assign the new colors in the printer ( CMYK+WWWW) via the RIP. The cartridges, and printer still think it's OEM.

Thanks! To flush the ink in R3000 i need refillable cartridge with flushing solution? Have any idea what solution is?

[johnson4]

32 minutes ago, Ricardo Carrillo said:

Thanks! To flush the ink in R3000 i need refillable cartridge with flushing solution? Have any idea what solution is?

You can look in the " store" and purchase the things you need. But yea, Refillable cartridges and get the OEM ink out would be the goal. I'm not familiar with the R3000, But if it doesn't have a replaceable/ external waste tank I'd be careful with that also. Not trying to make it more complicated on you, just know those ink pads fill up fast when flushing. If I hadn't used a P800 with a user replaceable waste tank I would have ran it to a waste tank.  

 

[Ikegwegbe]

I have been wondering, what is the need for the platform in the video posted on the first page about converting Epson l1800 to a DTF printer, or do you only need to remove the rollers of the printer

[Andy - Admin]

1 minute ago, Ikegwegbe said:

I have been wondering, what is the need for the platform in the video posted on the first page about converting Epson l1800 to a DTF printer, or do you only need to remove the rollers of the printer

It keeps the film from buckling up and hitting the printhead

[Ikegwegbe]

1 hour ago, Andy - Admin said:

It keeps the film from buckling up and hitting the printhead

Thanks, so will any platform be okay

[johnson4]

48 minutes ago, Ikegwegbe said:

Thanks, so will any platform be okay

Any platform that will hold it in the correct position should work.

[Ikegwegbe]

1 hour ago, johnson4 said:

Any platform that will hold it in the correct position should work.

Thanks for the info

[Keith606]

I am new to this forum and have just read through this thread. I have an extensive background in textile printing and have recently retired. I started an Etsy shop selling digital downloads of cut files for crafters using Cricut and Silhouette cutting machines. So many of my buyers want to know if I offer my designs on T-shirts that I'm thinking of setting up another shop to offer printed shirts. I am particularly interested in the DTF transfer method since it will apply to a variety of different fabrics. A couple questions I have are:

Does the powder only adhere to the white ink?

Can designs with feathered edges be printed like I see on DTG printed garments?

[uhim]

1 hour ago, Keith606 said:

I am new to this forum and have just read through this thread. I have an extensive background in textile printing and have recently retired. I started an Etsy shop selling digital downloads of cut files for crafters using Cricut and Silhouette cutting machines. So many of my buyers want to know if I offer my designs on T-shirts that I'm thinking of setting up another shop to offer printed shirts. I am particularly interested in the DTF transfer method since it will apply to a variety of different fabrics. A couple questions I have are:

Does the powder only adhere to the white ink?

Can designs with feathered edges be printed like I see on DTG printed garments?

White is the color for the vibrancy and vibrancy of color inks; the powder adheres to all inks until they dry. The DTF print can be of any form as it will translate what you printed.

Edited October 27, 2020 by uhim

[Martin Gaydarov]

If the ink is water-based and the powder is acting as a binder for the pigment, I'd just replace the CMYK DTG inks

with standard pigmented water-based inks , which have much lower amount of resins and are much less likely to cause clogging problems even if the printer is not used for a longer time. In general, the pigments would be the same colour indexes, except maybe for the yellow, which for DTG is standardly P.Y.155. Cyan would in both cases be P.B.15:3, magenta P.R.122 and black is P.B.7. However, white would  still be the one for DTG as P.W.6 (TiO2 ), which has a very high density of  4.2 g/cm3, is more stable in this formulation. Cleaning fluid is based on deionized water and a selection of polyols, some amines and surfactants.    

[Andy - Admin]

1 hour ago, Martin Gaydarov said:

If the ink is water-based and the powder is acting as a binder for the pigment, I'd just replace the CMYK DTG inks

with standard pigmented water-based inks , which have much lower amount of resins and are much less likely to cause clogging problems even if the printer is not used for a longer time. In general, the pigments would be the same colour indexes, except maybe for the yellow, which for DTG is standardly P.Y.155. Cyan would in both cases be P.B.15:3, magenta P.R.122 and black is P.B.7. However, white would  still be the one for DTG as P.W.6 (TiO2 ), which has a very high density of  4.2 g/cm3, is more stable in this formulation. Cleaning fluid is based on deionized water and a selection of polyols, some amines and surfactants.    

The inks still have to not bleed on the film and be able to stand up in the washing machine.

[johnson4]

2 hours ago, Martin Gaydarov said:

If the ink is water-based and the powder is acting as a binder for the pigment, I'd just replace the CMYK DTG inks

with standard pigmented water-based inks , which have much lower amount of resins and are much less likely to cause clogging problems even if the printer is not used for a longer time. In general, the pigments would be the same colour indexes, except maybe for the yellow, which for DTG is standardly P.Y.155. Cyan would in both cases be P.B.15:3, magenta P.R.122 and black is P.B.7. However, white would  still be the one for DTG as P.W.6 (TiO2 ), which has a very high density of  4.2 g/cm3, is more stable in this formulation. Cleaning fluid is based on deionized water and a selection of polyols, some amines and surfactants.    

The ink overall is different, and honestly, the DTF inks clog less, so in my opinion that aspect is irrelevant. 
 

I would also imagine that there is more than just the coloring agent, and carrier, such as a “base” that is pigmented. Both inks respond differently to water, before and after it has dried, or the carrier removed. 
 

DTG inks do not work on the film, where the DTF does. DTG separates, pools, and overall doesn’t work at all, while DTF inks seem to have less “ carrier” and offer a different type of bond. Both inks cure differently, and offer a different “ hand feel”. in any degree they are different including the carrier and base, probably not the pigment. Mixing two formulations based on the speculation of the same type of pigment, or coloring agent doesn’t make them universal to each other. 
 

without knowing the direct formulation to both inks, assumptions based of the coloring agents and carrier, as to which product will react to a specific element isn’t possible without testing, or knowledge of the overall makeup of the inks. 
 

 

for simplicity, they are not the same, and it would make no sense to mix DTG/DTF inks when the cost is the same, and the possible poor results from combining them. That and DTF appears to clog less, against your speculation.  
 

im not going to pretend I know much about it, just field use of the products and my experience of it, which comes with quite a bit of research, excluding things that do not matter to me in the real world.

Edited November 8, 2020 by johnson4

[johnson4]

Looking at Several MSDS sheets from different manufacturers do confirm that while most inks have a similar make-up, as you have described. For example, Dupont black:

Water Aliphatic Alcohol *Ethylene Glycol Polyglycol Ether Polymers Melamine Carbon Black Pigment

7732-18-5 ** 107-21-1 ** ** ** 1333-86-4

50-94 1-10 1-10 1-10 1-10 1-5 1-5

 

VS dupont White:

Water *Ethylene Glycol Humectant Titanium Dioxide Pigment Polymer

7732-18-5 107-21-1 **        13463-67-7 **

49-79 10-20 1-10 5-15 5-15

 

However, Unavailable to me is the MSDS for the DTF inks.  It would be nice to know the direct comparison between them, Very interesting indeed. I however, Do not recommend blending products without knowing what will happen first in any scenario before recommending doing so. 

Overall though, It seems the cleaning solutions would remain to work the same, I wonder why the ink responds the way it does to water for me. 

Thanks for bringing this information up, I'm in for some reading for sure! 

[Martin Gaydarov]

11 hours ago, johnson4 said:

Looking at Several MSDS sheets from different manufacturers do confirm that while most inks have a similar make-up, as you have described. For example, Dupont black:

Water Aliphatic Alcohol *Ethylene Glycol Polyglycol Ether Polymers Melamine Carbon Black Pigment

7732-18-5 ** 107-21-1 ** ** ** 1333-86-4

50-94 1-10 1-10 1-10 1-10 1-5 1-5

 

VS dupont White:

Water *Ethylene Glycol Humectant Titanium Dioxide Pigment Polymer

7732-18-5 107-21-1 **        13463-67-7 **

49-79 10-20 1-10 5-15 5-15

 

However, Unavailable to me is the MSDS for the DTF inks.  It would be nice to know the direct comparison between them, Very interesting indeed. I however, Do not recommend blending products without knowing what will happen first in any scenario before recommending doing so. 

Overall though, It seems the cleaning solutions would remain to work the same, I wonder why the ink responds the way it does to water for me. 

Thanks for bringing this information up, I'm in for some reading for sure! 

If you've tested DTG inks and those won't wet the film and print properly, then in order to try and answer the question Why DTG inks act differently, I'd have to get a sample and run some tests and analysis.  I'll see if i can get some in Europe.

My point was different.

If the DTG is working- printing properly on the film, you could substitute it for a much less expensive ink, namely a standard water-based pigmented ink for photgraphic prints. NOT to subsitute DTF for DTG, which makes no sense given they're equally priced.

    

[johnson4]

1 hour ago, Martin Gaydarov said:

If you've tested DTG inks and those won't wet the film and print properly, then in order to try and answer the question Why DTG inks act differently, I'd have to get a sample and run some tests and analysis.  I'll see if i can get some in Europe.

My point was different.

If the DTG is working- printing properly on the film, you could substitute it for a much less expensive ink, namely a standard water-based pigmented ink for photgraphic prints. NOT to subsitute DTF for DTG, which makes no sense given they're equally priced.

    

I see. I’ve personally used pigmented ink printed on transfers. While it does last in the wash for a couple washes, it doesn’t last nearly as long. Could be the transfers though, but then again, it fades with amounts of UV after a bit of time. I would also doubt the the pigmented ink would react to pre-treatment the same way, but in all of this I have no idea if it’s the media it’s printed on, or the ink itself. 
 

I do know that pigmented ink isn’t as heavy, so probably contains different binders/polymers. 

It’s a good point to raise, but I also feel like pigmented regular ink is completely different in its make-up. If you dry pigmented ink, it leaves behind next to nothing. The same for DTG ink, and it’s like a rubber, that, ends up being much thicker and flexible. I also feel like pigmented ink contains more alcohol, so it can dry faster instead of water. 
 

but, I have no real grounds for any of this. So if you come up with anything I’d be happy to test it also. 

 

[Martin Gaydarov]

DTG and photo pigmented inks are quite similar in their formulation but the binders are different. Yes, photo inks have slightly more penetrants, which in good inks isn't isopropanol. As regards to the UV resistance, that' why I pointed out that DTG yellow is standardly P.Y.155 which has a better light fastness. The other 3 colours have the best light fastness of 8 according to blue -wool scale and they are the same in both inks, not only in our formulations but I guess in  many others. Firstly, I'll try and find a PET film and print on it with our DTG inks and see how this goes.