plastisol dtg?? whaa??

[skwakk]

looks like they're already experimenting with plastisol based inks in Indonesia..I wonder if this will be a thing and eventually come to US shores. The heat transfer method seems like it will be very durable washability-wise. It looks like traditional plastisol screen-print. very tedious process though.

Also, curious to see if this ink is easier on the printheads since plastisol doesn't air dry.
 

 

[winnerinsanjaya]

nope, they just call it plastisol ink. but its not. i've contacted a supplier (chinese ink) in taiwan. they told me that this ink is nearly same as normal dtg ink, its pigment ink too

[winnerinsanjaya]

the methods is DTF, digital transfer film. u can use dtg ink too.

[johnson4]

50 minutes ago, winnerinsanjaya said:

the methods is DTF, digital transfer film. u can use dtg ink too.

It seems cool, I started out and still screen-print. I used to do transfers with the same powder, if it's the same polymer anyway. 

From the experience I have with it and customer feedback, it just doesn't compare to direct contact in terms of adhesion. ( plastisol transfers). Wash to wash, water based faded with the shirt fabric, usually creating a faded look as the shirt also fades(I love this). Plastisol ( directly printed) pretty much never deteriorates or changes but suffers a heavy hand and requires serious chemicals to clean. the transfers would all suffer peeling at some point, usually well before the water based shirt suffered any fading, even the one's I had purchased from other suppliers. Instead of the ink adhering itself to the fabric, now that polymer does the work, which, when heated peels off like any other heat transfer material. similar to just printing with a standard transfer. They have the self-weeding laser transfers for dark shirts, You run a clear ( like in the video) through a laser printer. Then apply a white backing sheet and heat press it and it only sticks to the parts with toner, which makes it self weeding. Then you have the stuff like Jet pro opaque, where you just print it in a regular inkjet ( pigment) and cut it out and press it on the shirt, In which I have experienced them all. Not to mention the ( probably high) extra cost for these papers/transfers.

I just don't see the added benefit of it, unless you were to sell designs to people, even then the quality of all of the above methods were very poor in comparison to Direct ink to fabric contact( like any form of screen-printing directly to the fabric, as well as DTG, since it's the same principle) from my experience.

Plastisol is used for many things, pretty much anything you grab with a soft rubber coating, is plastisol. Like fishing lures, the chains on my kids swingset, etc.

Plastisol is just that though, a plasticizer that keeps the ink " wet" or "melted" until it is evaporated away. The stuff likes to stick together, which is why every-time you need to use it, you have to mix it well due to separation, and coagulation. 

 If it was ever diluted enough to run through a printer, in any form, It wouldn't come close to comparing the water-based inks, Even then, I would imagine it would be much harder to ventilate, clean up and maintain. Viscosity is everything when it comes to printing. So I would agree that this is some sort of marketing " scheme" 

So, for me, Waterbased printing, usually lasts as long as the the shirt if it's printed correctly, it Fades and wears with it until the shirt turns into a rag. alongside the easy clean-up, and soft/no hand feel, I doubt anything will top that but surely it's possible.

My " gut feeling" of this product, tells me it's just someone trying to swoop in and make a quick buck. Every product has it's place in the market for different materials and users of course.

The #1 thing that  these " quick money grabbers" do is make a new, better, (INSERT PRODUCT HERE) and it so happens to be unique, and proprietary. It basically works magic, Until you buy it, and try it for yourself. Then, Somehow, It's on YOU because your " inexperienced" and they push you to buy more proprietary products to help out when it doesn't work as planned.

Eventually, the product will disappear, or come out with a new " upgraded" version. 

Like, For example, Screen-printing foil. It works, But it's not for commercial/resell use in terms of quality or durability. HOWEVER, This stuff found it's way in the DTG market, as a new means for adding that " touch" of extra that your printer just can't do.  100,000 new users buy it to try it, find out it's not for them or to " hard to master" and then throw it in the trash. Boom, Just made a quick buck off of the same ol' product, with new marketing. 

 

Don't get me wrong, It would be fantastic for new and exciting idea's to come out. New methods, Better methods, even wild unimaginable methods, like DTG would have been in the 80's when those guys slaved away at a screen press. I would be all for it, with due caution. But the truth is, most of this stuff is just another way to get into one of the largest stable markets that won't be going away Irregardless of what happens in the world to grab some cash, and live the life many of us aspire for with our racing minds trying to find that " unique" or " new" way to top the competitor. 

 

I could be wrong though, these are only speculations based from my own experiences, But I won't be betting the farm on it anytime soon.

 

 

[winnerinsanjaya]

3 hours ago, johnson4 said:

It seems cool, I started out and still screen-print. I used to do transfers with the same powder, if it's the same polymer anyway. 

From the experience I have with it and customer feedback, it just doesn't compare to direct contact in terms of adhesion. ( plastisol transfers). Wash to wash, water based faded with the shirt fabric, usually creating a faded look as the shirt also fades(I love this). Plastisol ( directly printed) pretty much never deteriorates or changes but suffers a heavy hand and requires serious chemicals to clean. the transfers would all suffer peeling at some point, usually well before the water based shirt suffered any fading, even the one's I had purchased from other suppliers. Instead of the ink adhering itself to the fabric, now that polymer does the work, which, when heated peels off like any other heat transfer material. similar to just printing with a standard transfer. They have the self-weeding laser transfers for dark shirts, You run a clear ( like in the video) through a laser printer. Then apply a white backing sheet and heat press it and it only sticks to the parts with toner, which makes it self weeding. Then you have the stuff like Jet pro opaque, where you just print it in a regular inkjet ( pigment) and cut it out and press it on the shirt, In which I have experienced them all. Not to mention the ( probably high) extra cost for these papers/transfers.

I just don't see the added benefit of it, unless you were to sell designs to people, even then the quality of all of the above methods were very poor in comparison to Direct ink to fabric contact( like any form of screen-printing directly to the fabric, as well as DTG, since it's the same principle) from my experience.

Plastisol is used for many things, pretty much anything you grab with a soft rubber coating, is plastisol. Like fishing lures, the chains on my kids swingset, etc.

Plastisol is just that though, a plasticizer that keeps the ink " wet" or "melted" until it is evaporated away. The stuff likes to stick together, which is why every-time you need to use it, you have to mix it well due to separation, and coagulation. 

 If it was ever diluted enough to run through a printer, in any form, It wouldn't come close to comparing the water-based inks, Even then, I would imagine it would be much harder to ventilate, clean up and maintain. Viscosity is everything when it comes to printing. So I would agree that this is some sort of marketing " scheme" 

So, for me, Waterbased printing, usually lasts as long as the the shirt if it's printed correctly, it Fades and wears with it until the shirt turns into a rag. alongside the easy clean-up, and soft/no hand feel, I doubt anything will top that but surely it's possible.

My " gut feeling" of this product, tells me it's just someone trying to swoop in and make a quick buck. Every product has it's place in the market for different materials and users of course.

The #1 thing that  these " quick money grabbers" do is make a new, better, (INSERT PRODUCT HERE) and it so happens to be unique, and proprietary. It basically works magic, Until you buy it, and try it for yourself. Then, Somehow, It's on YOU because your " inexperienced" and they push you to buy more proprietary products to help out when it doesn't work as planned.

Eventually, the product will disappear, or come out with a new " upgraded" version. 

Like, For example, Screen-printing foil. It works, But it's not for commercial/resell use in terms of quality or durability. HOWEVER, This stuff found it's way in the DTG market, as a new means for adding that " touch" of extra that your printer just can't do.  100,000 new users buy it to try it, find out it's not for them or to " hard to master" and then throw it in the trash. Boom, Just made a quick buck off of the same ol' product, with new marketing. 

 

Don't get me wrong, It would be fantastic for new and exciting idea's to come out. New methods, Better methods, even wild unimaginable methods, like DTG would have been in the 80's when those guys slaved away at a screen press. I would be all for it, with due caution. But the truth is, most of this stuff is just another way to get into one of the largest stable markets that won't be going away Irregardless of what happens in the world to grab some cash, and live the life many of us aspire for with our racing minds trying to find that " unique" or " new" way to top the competitor. 

 

I could be wrong though, these are only speculations based from my own experiences, But I won't be betting the farm on it anytime soon.

 

 

yepp, and what i know a benefit from this new method is. u can use in many fabrics.

[skwakk]

so you can do transfers with regular dtg ink?  I screen print but never dabbled with transfers.  what is the powder they use and the specific transfer paper?

[johnson4]

12 hours ago, winnerinsanjaya said:

yepp, and what i know a benefit from this new method is. u can use in many fabrics.

Didn't really think of that, Usually though I always go for at least 50 percent cotton on anything I print on, DTG or not so while that is a good benefit, It wouldn't really help much in my business. 

[johnson4]

7 hours ago, skwakk said:

so you can do transfers with regular dtg ink?  I screen print but never dabbled with transfers.  what is the powder they use and the specific transfer paper?

I'm not sure, If you printed on a release paper I don't see why not. You put the powder on while the ink is wet, so the powder only sticks to the design, shake the rest off and       " dry" the ink so the polymer sticks to the ink. After that, when you heat press it again, your melting the polymer and it mends with the fabric- creating a transfer. However, anytime this polymer gets heated, like in a dryer, it is possible for it to heat up to its melting point again and peel off, Unlike inks printed directly onto the fabric, which need its "carrier" or " plasticizer" to liquify it. The polymer is water-proof, it's literally like a plastic powder. 

I use the Plastisol release papers daily on my DTG prints, But only to cure them, not to transfer them since the DTG doesn't stick to it. I'd imagine if for DTG ink, since its more " watery" you would need the paper coated with something that will absorb it, unlike plastisol/ water based screen-printing ink. Once dry, That stuff that absorbs it needs to peel off the plastic with the design. That's how the laser transfers work too.

 

https://www.screenprinting.com/products/transfer-adhesion-powder-plastisol-transfer-adhesive-1-lb?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=dsa&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhaDKyf_S6wIVBdbACh31uAugEAAYASAAEgL8MfD_BwE

Edited September 5, 2020 by johnson4